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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The back and forth between the purchaser + sales person + sale manager.
I really get tired of it.
Live in Maryland. Want to get a 2022 Black hatchback sport touring. I know this is going to be a pain in the butt. I started seeing some of the show up on Truecar last week in my area. My credit union has a car buying program, so i thought i would give it a try. I know the market is crazy, but i have heard of a few people actually being able to do some negotiations with the non-hatchback. My search returned 2-3 exact matches in my area. The program even send the dealers an email and asked them for the "membership price".

I got a good hit on one.

2022 civic hatchback Sport touring, Crystal Black Pearl
Member price $30,315 (100 off from MSRP) -----> not the best but at least it wasnt 2-3 k over MSRP
Dealer processing $499
Splash Guards & Alloy Wheel locks $349

Total after dealer fees and accessories $31163 (of course before Tax, Reg, Title, Ect)

I thought. hey that is not bad.

Emailed the dealer and of course that specific car was already spoken for. Asked the sales person to prepare me a quote just like that one but with tax, reg, title, ect. An out the door quote. then i would come in and place the factory order and put a deposit if needed.

He sends me back a quote with the splash guards removed and they added in a $1800 charge for Zurich Shield. Plus the quote read under the color section "unspecified" We went back and forth for the past two days in emails.

So he finally send me an email with a quote that has the splash guards and wheel locks. All of the tax, reg, title, dealer fee added. The base cost they are giving me is $30,315"
BUT. they would not budge on the Zurich Shield. The said his sale manager said they will not negotiate with that. He claimed they are not adding in any market adjustments like other dealers are, and that the Zurich Shield they are adding is actually a benefit. And that other dealers are increasing their price with out adding any benefit to the purchaser.

I honestly dont know if it is worth it.

I really dont need a new car AT ALL. I have a beautiful 2014 Civic EX-L with Navigation, Black. it has splash guards, wheel locks, all weather mats, trunk tray. And best of all only 58,000 miles. The passenger seat and back seats are virtually untouched. All the interior is spotless and no damage outside or inside. Almost everyone that sees it says it looks like a new car. I treated it like my baby.

Some online evaluation have estimated i could get between 14-16 k trade for it. I am still going to take it around and have it looked at to get a good idea what it is worth in the market around here.

I would love to have the new civic. But paying an out the door price of 35-36k for a civic that is not SI or R? I am not really feeling it.
 

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The back and forth between the purchaser + sales person + sale manager.
I really get tired of it.
Live in Maryland. Want to get a 2022 Black hatchback sport touring. I know this is going to be a pain in the butt. I started seeing some of the show up on Truecar last week in my area. My credit union has a car buying program, so i thought i would give it a try. I know the market is crazy, but i have heard of a few people actually being able to do some negotiations with the non-hatchback. My search returned 2-3 exact matches in my area. The program even send the dealers an email and asked them for the "membership price".

I got a good hit on one.

2022 civic hatchback Sport touring, Crystal Black Pearl
Member price $30,315 (100 off from MSRP) -----> not the best but at least it wasnt 2-3 k over MSRP
Dealer processing $499
Splash Guards & Alloy Wheel locks $349

Total after dealer fees and accessories $31163 (of course before Tax, Reg, Title, Ect)

I thought. hey that is not bad.

Emailed the dealer and of course that specific car was already spoken for. Asked the sales person to prepare me a quote just like that one but with tax, reg, title, ect. An out the door quote. then i would come in and place the factory order and put a deposit if needed.

He sends me back a quote with the splash guards removed and they added in a $1800 charge for Zurich Shield. Plus the quote read under the color section "unspecified" We went back and forth for the past two days in emails.

So he finally send me an email with a quote that has the splash guards and wheel locks. All of the tax, reg, title, dealer fee added. The base cost they are giving me is $30,315"
BUT. they would not budge on the Zurich Shield. The said his sale manager said they will not negotiate with that. He claimed they are not adding in any market adjustments like other dealers are, and that the Zurich Shield they are adding is actually a benefit. And that other dealers are increasing their price with out adding any benefit to the purchaser.

I honestly dont know if it is worth it.

I really dont need a new car AT ALL. I have a beautiful 2014 Civic EX-L with Navigation, Black. it has splash guards, wheel locks, all weather mats, trunk tray. And best of all only 58,000 miles. The passenger seat and back seats are virtually untouched. All the interior is spotless and no damage outside or inside. Almost everyone that sees it says it looks like a new car. I treated it like my baby.

Some online evaluation have estimated i could get between 14-16 k trade for it. I am still going to take it around and have it looked at to get a good idea what it is worth in the market around here.

I would love to have the new civic. But paying an out the door price of 35-36k for a civic that is not SI or R? I am not really feeling it.
Welcome to the forum @JohnT2021. Sorry to hear about all the back and forth you've been having with your dealer. The market is absolutely insane right now, both new and used. If you're not in need to get the new Civic as you mentioned, it might be worth waiting a little bit for everything to cool down a bit. It's not worth paying more than you're comfortable with if you have a perfectly good Civic at home. Have you had your 2014 Civic since new?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Welcome to the forum @JohnT2021. Sorry to hear about all the back and forth you've been having with your dealer. The market is absolutely insane right now, both new and used. If you're not in need to get the new Civic as you mentioned, it might be worth waiting a little bit for everything to cool down a bit. It's not worth paying more than you're comfortable with if you have a perfectly good Civic at home. Have you had your 2014 Civic since new?
yes, i purchased my 2014 brand new.
i may still see what my car trade value is. just for the hell of it.
I really should not have started contacting dealers until there was a little bit of sales data from my area. i have nothing to compare the quote to
 

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I've been reading posts like yours all over the place and I can't understand it. This is 2021 and I wasn't even doing 'the dance' when I bought my last car in 2013. There's just too much information out there to have to go thru this. It's slightly different right now because of the supply issues, but with my new Civic Touring I just kept checking the local dealers and if they had one in a color I liked, I emailed them and asked for the price of the car with any fees and NO dealer add-ons. If they answered back with a bunch of BS questions, or the price was higher than I thought it should be, I just moved on. Found one that was in transit, I asked the same question, dealer answered back with MSRP plus fees, and I bought it.
That's the same thing I did with my 2014 Outback, my wife's 2017 Tiguan, and our daughter's 2020 CX-30.
One other thing, as far as my experience, you can't get better financing than from the manufacturer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I've been reading posts like yours all over the place and I can't understand it. This is 2021 and I wasn't even doing 'the dance' when I bought my last car in 2013. There's just too much information out there to have to go thru this. It's slightly different right now because of the supply issues, but with my new Civic Touring I just kept checking the local dealers and if they had one in a color I liked, I emailed them and asked for the price of the car with any fees and NO dealer add-ons. If they answered back with a bunch of BS questions, or the price was higher than I thought it should be, I just moved on. Found one that was in transit, I asked the same question, dealer answered back with MSRP plus fees, and I bought it.
That's the same thing I did with my 2014 Outback, my wife's 2017 Tiguan, and our daughter's 2020 CX-30.
One other thing, as far as my experience, you can't get better financing than from the manufacturer.
back when i bought my 2014 i had to go back and forth with the dealer. the problem is now since the supply is so low they pretty much have the upper hand in the negotiations.
i get it, honestly. they know they can make max profit if they keep holding out.

they are not having many cars delivered to their lots, so they have less risk of having a bunch of unsold cars at the end of the year. so really they don’t have an urgency to give you the best deal so they can get it off the lot.

i have no one to blame but myself for my frustration. i knew that the hatchback was so new that they had not sold any in my area yet. so the dealers can pretty much ask for anything they want, until enough buyers tell them NO
 

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Sadly with the current market if you do not purchase it someone else will, reaffirming dealers like this to do this. They say this is not a "dealer mark-up" but it is. You think ceramic coating costs them $1800? It is done in-house and probably runs them $100-$200 per car; so in reality they do have a $1500 dealer mark-up. Although getting a good coating or protection film added will run you $500-$1500 depending on the quality from third party sources. The dealer just wants to make that profit instead of a third party installer and give you a shit product. I would tell them to remove it or you wont purchase from them.

Check out youtube videos and the comments/reviews of these products.


You will be better off having a third party install a 3M/Expel protection system or ceramic coat.
 

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The back and forth between the purchaser + sales person + sale manager.
I really get tired of it.
Live in Maryland. Want to get a 2022 Black hatchback sport touring. I know this is going to be a pain in the butt. I started seeing some of the show up on Truecar last week in my area. My credit union has a car buying program, so i thought i would give it a try. I know the market is crazy, but i have heard of a few people actually being able to do some negotiations with the non-hatchback. My search returned 2-3 exact matches in my area. The program even send the dealers an email and asked them for the "membership price".

I got a good hit on one.

2022 civic hatchback Sport touring, Crystal Black Pearl
Member price $30,315 (100 off from MSRP) -----> not the best but at least it wasnt 2-3 k over MSRP
Dealer processing $499
Splash Guards & Alloy Wheel locks $349

Total after dealer fees and accessories $31163 (of course before Tax, Reg, Title, Ect)

I thought. hey that is not bad.

Emailed the dealer and of course that specific car was already spoken for. Asked the sales person to prepare me a quote just like that one but with tax, reg, title, ect. An out the door quote. then i would come in and place the factory order and put a deposit if needed.

He sends me back a quote with the splash guards removed and they added in a $1800 charge for Zurich Shield. Plus the quote read under the color section "unspecified" We went back and forth for the past two days in emails.

So he finally send me an email with a quote that has the splash guards and wheel locks. All of the tax, reg, title, dealer fee added. The base cost they are giving me is $30,315"
BUT. they would not budge on the Zurich Shield. The said his sale manager said they will not negotiate with that. He claimed they are not adding in any market adjustments like other dealers are, and that the Zurich Shield they are adding is actually a benefit. And that other dealers are increasing their price with out adding any benefit to the purchaser.

I honestly dont know if it is worth it.

I really dont need a new car AT ALL. I have a beautiful 2014 Civic EX-L with Navigation, Black. it has splash guards, wheel locks, all weather mats, trunk tray. And best of all only 58,000 miles. The passenger seat and back seats are virtually untouched. All the interior is spotless and no damage outside or inside. Almost everyone that sees it says it looks like a new car. I treated it like my baby.

Some online evaluation have estimated i could get between 14-16 k trade for it. I am still going to take it around and have it looked at to get a good idea what it is worth in the market around here.

I would love to have the new civic. But paying an out the door price of 35-36k for a civic that is not SI or R? I am not really feeling it.
It suck’s regarding what’s going on with dealers these days. I bought my black 22 Civic Touring sedan in early July. Since then my local dealership can’t get on the lot before they are sold. It’s unfortunate, I’m coming from a 2020 civic hatchback sport. The 22 Civic with the 1.5 turbo is so sweet. I like how Honda tuned the engine differently on the new one. It barely has any turbo lag and it’s more responsive. The 2020 civic I had, I could feel the turbo lag every now and then. It used to annoy me. I didn’t like the hesitation. I really think people have to see the new Civic in person to really appreciate the new design. Hopefully you get one for a fair price.
 

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If I were you I’d wait. You have a great car and the dealers will have the upper hand until the supply chain issues are resolved. I have a 13 myself and I’ve decided to wait.
 

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Welcome to the forum @JohnT2021. Sorry to hear about all the back and forth you've been having with your dealer. The market is absolutely insane right now, both new and used. If you're not in need to get the new Civic as you mentioned, it might be worth waiting a little bit for everything to cool down a bit. It's not worth paying more than you're comfortable with if you have a perfectly good Civic at home. Have you had your 2014 Civic since new?
Agreed, this seems like a no brainer. Not to sound rude or anything. But, you really cant expect a different answer. Covid-19 has wreaked havoc on every industry, not just the car industry, EVERY industry. The fact that you have a perfectly fine working car, KEEP IT! This is absolutely the worst time ever to buy a car new or used. Many people don't have a car at all and are desperate and have no choice but to pay these absurd fees or go carless. Things are not expected to get better til 2022 or 2023, so just hold and wait. I can bet any amount of money that in 10 years from now, when they finally analyze all the data such as unemployment, debt, economics, etc. It's going to look a lot darker than people know. We're currently living through one of the worst times in history. A lot of documentaries and movies are going to come out Based on 2019-2022 era.
 

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2022 Civic Hatchback ST 6MT in PWP
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Agreed, this seems like a no brainer. Not to sound rude or anything. But, you really cant expect a different answer. Covid-19 has wreaked havoc on every industry, not just the car industry, EVERY industry. The fact that you have a perfectly fine working car, KEEP IT! This is absolutely the worst time ever to buy a car new or used. Many people don't have a car at all and are desperate and have no choice but to pay these absurd fees or go carless. Things are not expected to get better til 2022 or 2023, so just hold and wait. I can bet any amount of money that in 10 years from now, when they finally analyze all the data such as unemployment, debt, economics, etc. It's going to look a lot darker than people know. We're currently living through one of the worst times in history. A lot of documentaries and movies are going to come out Based on 2019-2022 era.
This is objectively the right answer - if you have a "perfectly fine and working car" and have no urgent need or desire to get a brand new one (or even a new-to-you one) in the next 3-6 months, there is no reason to do so and pay the market premium.

Railing against the fact that a market premium exists at all is just silly, it's simply supply and demand. Dealers can charge over MSRP and sell out, so they'd be fools to leave that money on the table and give it to the lucky few who happen to snag the deals; conversely, people with more money than patience, or greater need and are willing to pay more to get it now vs. some undefinable later, should be able to snag the inventory over someone who just happened to call at the right time. It's called a "free market" for a reason.

One thing I'll point out though is that your position here (or rather, that of @JohnT2021 who is the OP) is much better than someone else who "just needs to buy a car now", because the market premium works both ways.

Your 60K mileage, single user, pristine condition 2014 Civic Touring sedan is at a peak market value. Cars matching that description are selling on Carvana right now for around $23K; I'm sure you could find a private buyer relatively quickly for $20K. (You will not get nearly as much in a dealer trade-in value.) And it's the buyer who pays tax when registering/titling the vehicle in a private sale, not the seller - all that money goes into your pocket.

So now the analysis - YOUR analysis, not someone else's - isn't "why should I pay $34K OTD for a 2022 Civic HB Sport Touring", but "is it worth $14K to turn my 60K mile, 7-year-old Civic Touring sedan into such a car?"

If "normal market conditions" would have seen you get $14-16K for your car and then to pay $30-32K OTD for the new HB, that's exactly the same deal.

And whenever the supply increases and the market for new cars cools down, I think the market for used cars will cool down even MORE. And your used car will only get older, while new cars will still be new.

Plus, at the 7 year mark, even if your 2014 Civic has been trouble-free all this time, you're entering that red zone where normal wear and tear stuff on a car starts to break down. AC compressor, alternator, engine belts, suspension parts, tires, that sort of thing. Let's say you waited out the market for nine months - what if in that time you found you needed to replace something like that?

Best of all, you can play it both ways. Don't be in a rush. Sell your car first, hold firm on $20K (or on the "$19,500" type thing) and meanwhile more and more of these 2022 Civic HBs are rolling out after the initial trickle; dealer asks should come down accordingly. Widen your dealership scope, and find one that has the exact color you want (if black wasn't your thing and you were settling - speaking from experience, hopefully you weren't set on getting a manual transmission one because those genuinely ARE and will be rare, LOL.)
 
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