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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

I currently drive a 2005 Civic EX, but when my muffler started getting loud my mechanic told me my catalytic converter is bad too and replacing the whole exhaust system will cost $2000... so time for a new car. While shopping for a 2021 Civic Ex, the dealer told me my car was only worth $500 salvage, which I still holding out hope isn't true and will likely pursue a private sale instead. The tires alone are worth more that half that since they only have about 1000 miles on them.

The features I'm looking for in a new car are:
  • Heated Front Seats
  • Wireless Android Auto
  • Remote Start
  • ALL of the safety and sensing features including blind spot detection
  • Reliability, low total cost of ownership, long lasting
  • Large enough back seat to accommodate a child's seat (I'm having my first child soon)
I had been shopping for a 2021 Civic EX, but then learned that the 2022 would have wireless AA (which turned out to only be on the touring) and blind spot detection and would be arriving soon. Currently I'm mostly looking at the 2022 Civic Ex and the 2021 Elantra SEL w/ Convenience package because both of these vehicles hit MOST of my checkmarks.

2022 Civic Ex Pros:
  • Nicer looking interior and exterior (Not a high priority for me)
  • More powerful (Not a high priority for me)
Cons
  • Turbo (been told they don't last as long)
  • Need touring for wireless phone charger, wireless AA, crosstraffic, parking sensors, low speed breaking control
  • I'd like to buy sooner, but don't want to pay additional dealer markup
2021 Elantra SEL w/ Conv Pros:
  • 2.5k cheaper
  • Almost double the warranty
  • Neat hands-free smart trunk feature
  • Has the wireless charger, wirelessAA, crosstrafic, and low speed breaking that the Civic Ex lacks
Cons:
  • Ugly grill, cheap looking console
  • Need to upgrade to Limited for parking sensors (but limited doesn't come with wireless AA)
  • 1" wider than the civic
  • Depreciates faster than the civic

Both of them have digital clusters which is a negative for me as I'd prefer actual dials instead of another screen, but I don't think dials are common today. But I haven't spent much time with a digital cluster so maybe it'll be fine. Also, I have considered getting a Wireless Android Auto dongle like the AAWireless which costs like $75, so may not be the worst feature to lack if I buy the Ex.

I think at a minimum I'm going to wait until July 16th to read the Civic reviews.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
While shopping for the 2021 Civic Ex (before I realized the 2022 was just around the corner), I used Truecar to get quotes from 6 different dealers the best was 8.5% off MSRP. I also used Costco Auto which ended up being $3 less than Truecar's best, so very close.

I was kind of surprised to run into a brick wall trying to negotiate. None of the dealerships seemed at all interested in trying to beat my existing best offer or negotiate at all. Though several cited the chip shortage as the reason they wouldn't budge. So it was likely that or just that I suck at negotiating. Or just that in the era of Truecar, dealers are actually just upfront about their best available offer.
 

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2019 Honda Civic Coupe EX - Aegean Blue
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Horrible time to negotiate. Dealers have low inventories.
I saw an article the other day that said a (Ford) dealership that normally had 1500 cars on the lot at all times were down to just 50 cars available on the lot. I'm sure every dealer and make is different in how it's effecting them, but yea, right now is a terrible time to be buying a new or used car. Here's hoping things bounce back in a few months time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
a terrible time to be buying a new or used car
I didn't think 8.5% off MSRP was too terrible. I've been told that 10% off is considered to be really good deal, so I'm not into really good deal territory, but it didn't feel too terrible either.

That being said, looking at used cars, those do looked terrible. The kelly blue book for private sale of a 2016 Civic with 35k miles is only $500 less than the original MSRP, which means someone could've purchased a 2016 car in 2015 for say $1000 off of MSRP, put 35K miles on it, and sell it 6 years later for a profit. Normally I'm not the type of person to buy brand new, but in this market seems like a much better deal when compared to used cars.
 

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While shopping for the 2021 Civic Ex (before I realized the 2022 was just around the corner), I used Truecar to get quotes from 6 different dealers the best was 8.5% off MSRP. I also used Costco Auto which ended up being $3 less than Truecar's best, so very close.

I was kind of surprised to run into a brick wall trying to negotiate. None of the dealerships seemed at all interested in trying to beat my existing best offer or negotiate at all. Though several cited the chip shortage as the reason they wouldn't budge. So it was likely that or just that I suck at negotiating. Or just that in the era of Truecar, dealers are actually just upfront about their best available offer.
Welcome to the forum @Gravy. I imagine dealers are going to be more open to negotiating 2021 Civics once they start getting the 2022s. Do you have a preference between the 2021 and 2022 models?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Welcome to the forum @Gravy. I imagine dealers are going to be more open to negotiating 2021 Civics once they start getting the 2022s. Do you have a preference between the 2021 and 2022 models?
Thanks! Blind spot detection is one of the safety features I'd like to have and lanewatch seems like a lousy replacement. I also like the interior better on the 2022. Even though they're MSRP priced almost the same, I don't really have a good idea of what the price difference between the 2022 Ex and the 2021 Ex will actually be in terms of offers.

I've been told that first years of redesigns are less reliable, but I'm not sure how much stock to put into that. As a test of sorts I compared the kelly blue book of 2016 civics vs 2015 civics and found that 2016 civics is $500 off original msrp while 2015 is $4000 off its original msrp, so in terms of resale value it seems like any difference in reliability is trumped by features. Or maybe the 2016's that didn't do well are just not "excellent" in quality, so I might have just been comparing the ones that 2016's that didn't have any issues and the comparison may be invalid for identifying what percent had issues.
 

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Trading in your old car while negotiating the price of new one is like playing shell game. You can watch the ball all you want, but in the end they will always get you. So take your old car out of the equation and just do one thing at a time. Selling your old car is not that difficult. In my own case I was offered $200, I sold it for $1100 on CL, it took 2-3 days. I also ended up not buying new car from that dealer.

PS. New Elantra is one seriously ugly car.
 

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Trading in your old car while negotiating the price of new one is like playing shell game. You can watch the ball all you want, but in the end they will always get you. So take your old car out of the equation and just do one thing at a time. Selling your old car is not that difficult. In my own case I was offered $200, I sold it for $1100 on CL, it took 2-3 days. I also ended up not buying new car from that dealer.

PS. New Elantra is one seriously ugly car.
Selling it on your own now is even better with how much used car prices have gone up!
 

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If you can wait until new Impreza is released (soon) then you can compare all 3 cars and make final decision.
No manufacturer can test cars in every possible driving situation. That is why those who have to have latest and greatest are basically 'privileged' to pay to be 'testers'. But you have few years warranty and if you drive a lot to encounter any of potential bugs, it will be resolved by dealership.
I would guess if you buy top trim 2021 Civic now, you might get really good price and bug free car.
 

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I've been told that first years of redesigns are less reliable, but I'm not sure how much stock to put into that. As a test of sorts I compared the kelly blue book of 2016 civics vs 2015 civics and found that 2016 civics is $500 off original msrp while 2015 is $4000 off its original msrp, so in terms of resale value it seems like any difference in reliability is trumped by features. Or maybe the 2016's that didn't do well are just not "excellent" in quality, so I might have just been comparing the ones that 2016's that didn't have any issues and the comparison may be invalid for identifying what percent had issues.
Put stock in it. It’s a universal issue that the first year of a redesign is less reliable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
@hondapwr
What do you mean "good"? I have a Honda dealer a couple blocks from. About 10 years ago they wanted to charge me multiple hundreds of dollars for drilling my license plate screws because they said it was hours of grueling work. A nearby shop did it in 10 minutes for free. Haven't been back to their service department since. That was shortly after my used car warranty with them expired anyway, so I had already been looking for an excuse to find a new shop since I knew dealerships tend to be some of the more expensive and less trustworthy repair shops.

I was under the impression that overcharging for repairs was pretty typical for dealership service departments, which is how some of them can do things like throw in a lifetime powertrain warranty, but recoup any future risks through forcing you to service your car at their overpriced service department.
 

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@hondapwr
so I had already been looking for an excuse to find a new shop since I knew dealerships tend to be some of the more expensive and less trustworthy repair shops.
Good luck finding an independent shop to service current cars. Unless they specialize in certain brand.
Current cars are Computers on wheels. 'Local garage' might do minor mechanical work (brakes, tires, some welding, etc.) but for everything else they need special Honda equipment. I might be wrong, though.
 

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@hondapwr
What do you mean "good"? I have a Honda dealer a couple blocks from. About 10 years ago they wanted to charge me multiple hundreds of dollars for drilling my license plate screws because they said it was hours of grueling work. A nearby shop did it in 10 minutes for free. Haven't been back to their service department since. That was shortly after my used car warranty with them expired anyway, so I had already been looking for an excuse to find a new shop since I knew dealerships tend to be some of the more expensive and less trustworthy repair shops.

I was under the impression that overcharging for repairs was pretty typical for dealership service departments, which is how some of them can do things like throw in a lifetime powertrain warranty, but recoup any future risks through forcing you to service your car at their overpriced service department.
"Good" meaning dealers with reasonable pricing, honest, good service, no pressure to purchase, etc. The opposite (at least with pricing) of what you experienced 10 years ago. Good thing we have communities like this where DIY's and other helpful info can be found!
 
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