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2022 Civic Hatchback ST 6MT in PWP
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Fully agree. I'm rolling my eyes and smh everytime I see people mentioning they agreed to the markup. Just cant help but think "thanks for over paying and allowing every dealership entitled to overcharge"
Well, hey. It is what it is. If you "need" a new car now, and/or a specific model / trim / color configuration, your options are to pay market price in your area; find a cheaper deal, most likely in a different, much farther away area; to get a different model/trim (e.g., settle for Sport instead of Sport Touring, or sedan instead of hatchback); or to wait until supply increases and/or demand decreases.

That's capitalism for you, you get the bad with the good. Otherwise we'd all be putting our names on a wait list to get a specific car at a specific price and then just buying it whenever it happened to become available, be it next week or three years from now, East German Trabant style.

The good news is, this is transient and supply will eventually increase, and demand will probably die down as well as right now it's at an all-time peak as Honda fans are champing at the bit to be one of the first to get the new gen. When it's 2023 or 2024 and these are more common, the sexiness factor will go down as well as the supply to increase.

Personally, I am willing to spend up to $35K (5K over MSRP) to get EWIW, "exactly what I want", versus $30K MSRP for "settling" only to feel annoyed every time I see the EWIW version on the road or internet for the next 5-7 years.

If I knew I could get EWIW in (say) six months for $30K then yeah, I'd wait... But it could also not happen, or it could happen that in six months, it'd become "only" a $2500 market over MSRP versus $5K markup in my area, or even still be the same markup and I waited six months for no good reason.
 

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Well, hey. It is what it is. If you "need" a new car now, and/or a specific model / trim / color configuration, your options are to pay market price in your area; find a cheaper deal, most likely in a different, much farther away area; to get a different model/trim (e.g., settle for Sport instead of Sport Touring, or sedan instead of hatchback); or to wait until supply increases and/or demand decreases.

That's capitalism for you, you get the bad with the good. Otherwise we'd all be putting our names on a wait list to get a specific car at a specific price and then just buying it whenever it happened to become available, be it next week or three years from now, East German Trabant style.

The good news is, this is transient and supply will eventually increase, and demand will probably die down as well as right now it's at an all-time peak as Honda fans are champing at the bit to be one of the first to get the new gen. When it's 2023 or 2024 and these are more common, the sexiness factor will go down as well as the supply to increase.

Personally, I am willing to spend up to $35K (5K over MSRP) to get EWIW, "exactly what I want", versus $30K MSRP for "settling" only to feel annoyed every time I see the EWIW version on the road or internet for the next 5-7 years.

If I knew I could get EWIW in (say) six months for $30K then yeah, I'd wait... But it could also not happen, or it could happen that in six months, it'd become "only" a $2500 market over MSRP versus $5K markup in my area, or even still be the same markup and I waited six months for no good reason.
Agreed. But, the same could be said for the people who are overpaying. If nobody overpays dealers would be forced to sell at normal prices or even cheaper than normal prices... Theres always that to add to the mix too.
 

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2022 Civic Hatchback ST 6MT in PWP
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Agreed. But, the same could be said for the people who are overpaying. If nobody overpays dealers would be forced to sell at normal prices or even cheaper than normal prices... Theres always that to add to the mix too.
It does depend on whether one actually "needs" to buy a car or simply "wants to" replace a car with a newer one.

Having first sold my previous DD (wanting to lock in a high market price for it - see below), I have no daily driver and am running errands in my "leisure/project car", a 2000 BMW Z3 roadster, which is not very practical (especially in the rain).

Personally, I am willing to spend up to $35K (5K over MSRP) to get EWIW, "exactly what I want", versus $30K MSRP for "settling" only to feel annoyed every time I see the EWIW version on the road or internet for the next 5-7 years.
...OK, and now I have found and done exactly that!

I am getting a 2022 Civic Hatchback in white with the 6MT, a car I've only even seen 5-6 of nationwide so far (always already taken), and have been told by a dealer will have only eight made for my region for the 2022 model year, where most are not even in the production schedule yet (so, figure on the order of 50 nationwide, and an estimated wait until Feb/Mar 2022).

To do so, I had to find a dealer out of my region (way, WAY out of my region... Findlay Honda of Henderson, NV) who was listing one "in transit" (and not sold yet), at was selling it at MSRP...!

...but with a slew of dealer add-ons at marked up prices or it'd go on the market!

And voila, those mark-ups come to... Well, just around $4000 in markups, I'd say. Hello market adjustment!

But I took the bait. Sorry, mi compadres, I was weak.

Per Honda's configuration web page:
2020 Honda Civic Hatchback Sport Touring, PWP, 6MT
+ HPD package, All-Season package, wheel locks
= $32,001 MSRP

+ 3M window tinting (which would normally cost $450 where I am)
= about $32,450 total for Exactly What I Wanted, "if I found a deal at MSRP"

Instead I'm paying $36,400 for this, plus a bunch of smaller, "unnecessary" add-ons tacked on: an inflated labor cost to install the HPD package, the "are you kidding me" VIN etching security thing, ceramic paint guard film, etc.

For that $4K overpay from EWIW, however, I will get my car next week (not deep into next year), and can now stop hunting for it (I was spending literally 2-3 hours a day hunting for it or thinking about it, which was affecting my job performance).

(And hey, that paint guard thing may actually not be a bad idea given the "thin paint" complaints in another thread, even if overpriced!)

I am OK with this because:
  • Getting this car is a cash buy for which I'd already budgeted 35-40K (and will still qualify as being)
  • I plan to keep my car for 5-7 years or longer, so the overpay will be spread out
  • My previous DD was a car I bought used in 2016, and sold two weeks ago for $1500 more than I'd paid for it!
    • KBB value on my car (as a private sale) a year ago was $3000 less than I sold it for!
    • So by my reckoning, most of my overpay is thus a transfer of "market adjustment" from my former car being overvalued due to the shortage
Your mileage may vary.

May we all find the car we want at a price we can accept!
 

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It does depend on whether one actually "needs" to buy a car or simply "wants to" replace a car with a newer one.

Having first sold my previous DD (wanting to lock in a high market price for it - see below), I have no daily driver and am running errands in my "leisure/project car", a 2000 BMW Z3 roadster, which is not very practical (especially in the rain).



...OK, and now I have found and done exactly that!

I am getting a 2022 Civic Hatchback in white with the 6MT, a car I've only even seen 5-6 of nationwide so far (always already taken), and have been told by a dealer will have only eight made for my region for the 2022 model year, where most are not even in the production schedule yet (so, figure on the order of 50 nationwide, and an estimated wait until Feb/Mar 2022).

To do so, I had to find a dealer out of my region (way, WAY out of my region... Findlay Honda of Henderson, NV) who was listing one "in transit" (and not sold yet), at was selling it at MSRP...!

...but with a slew of dealer add-ons at marked up prices or it'd go on the market!

And voila, those mark-ups come to... Well, just around $4000 in markups, I'd say. Hello market adjustment!

But I took the bait. Sorry, mi compadres, I was weak.

Per Honda's configuration web page:
2020 Honda Civic Hatchback Sport Touring, PWP, 6MT
+ HPD package, All-Season package, wheel locks
= $32,001 MSRP

+ 3M window tinting (which would normally cost $450 where I am)
= about $32,450 total for Exactly What I Wanted, "if I found a deal at MSRP"

Instead I'm paying $36,400 for this, plus a bunch of smaller, "unnecessary" add-ons tacked on: an inflated labor cost to install the HPD package, the "are you kidding me" VIN etching security thing, ceramic paint guard film, etc.

For that $4K overpay from EWIW, however, I will get my car next week (not deep into next year), and can now stop hunting for it (I was spending literally 2-3 hours a day hunting for it or thinking about it, which was affecting my job performance).

(And hey, that paint guard thing may actually not be a bad idea given the "thin paint" complaints in another thread, even if overpriced!)

I am OK with this because:
  • Getting this car is a cash buy for which I'd already budgeted 35-40K (and will still qualify as being)
  • I plan to keep my car for 5-7 years or longer, so the overpay will be spread out
  • My previous DD was a car I bought used in 2016, and sold two weeks ago for $1500 more than I'd paid for it!
    • KBB value on my car (as a private sale) a year ago was $3000 less than I sold it for!
    • So by my reckoning, most of my overpay is thus a transfer of "market adjustment" from my former car being overvalued due to the shortage
Your mileage may vary.

May we all find the car we want at a price we can accept!
Congrats on finding the car you wanted!

I don’t really blame you for jumping on it. With the production numbers the way they are now, who knows if, and when, you’ll ever find another one.

I paid MSRP for my Touring. But I figure I got an excellent price when selling my old car. So I figure it’s about the same as getting a good price on the new car, and an OK price on the old car. Which would be typical pre-pandemic.

Just be happy you weren’t shopping for a Type-R. The markup on that is going to be crazy! 😜
 

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2022 Civic Hatchback ST 6MT in PWP
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Congrats on finding the car you wanted!

I don’t really blame you for jumping on it. With the production numbers the way they are now, who knows if, and when, you’ll ever find another one.

I paid MSRP for my Touring. But I figure I got an excellent price when selling my old car. So I figure it’s about the same as getting a good price on the new car, and an OK price on the old car. Which would be typical pre-pandemic.

Just be happy you weren’t shopping for a Type-R. The markup on that is going to be crazy! 😜
Yeah, unless you still owe money on a previous car or are doing a lease return, it's almost always far better to sell in a private sale than what the dealer will offer you (plus they often shift money around by giving you less of a deal on the purchase if they give you a high trade-in value, and vice versa).

The 2020 Type R was already getting a $15,000 (not a typo) markup, printed on the window, at the Honda dealership I visited in Northern NJ last June (2020) when I bought a CR-V Hybrid. I can only imagine what the 2023 Type R will command if the shortage is still going on. Though on the flip side, perhaps it's as good a time as any to buy the unsold "last gen" Type R at closer to MSRP!

But the Type R is "too much sport" for me, an "Si-ified" HB would be perfect for what I want and I think a Hondata CARB tuning down the line - and maybe, but probably not, dropping in a lighter flywheel - would get me 95% of the way there.

If only any of these cars still had manual hand brakes, LOL.
 

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It does depend on whether one actually "needs" to buy a car or simply "wants to" replace a car with a newer one.

Having first sold my previous DD (wanting to lock in a high market price for it - see below), I have no daily driver and am running errands in my "leisure/project car", a 2000 BMW Z3 roadster, which is not very practical (especially in the rain).
Font Parallel Screenshot Terrestrial plant Rectangle



something just tells me paying close to $6,000 over MSRP is ridiculous for a Honda Civic that IS NOT a Si, Type R or Touring. $33,500? At least 6-8 other dealership quoted me around the same price. I finally found one willing to do $29,300 out the door and I'm still not comfortable paying for that, plus its not the exact trim I wanted either.
 

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2022 Civic Hatchback ST 6MT in PWP
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I am getting a 2022 Civic Hatchback in white with the 6MT, a car I've only even seen 5-6 of nationwide so far (always already taken), and have been told by a dealer will have only eight made for my region for the 2022 model year, where most are not even in the production schedule yet (so, figure on the order of 50 nationwide, and an estimated wait until Feb/Mar 2022).

To do so, I had to find a dealer out of my region (way, WAY out of my region... Findlay Honda of Henderson, NV) who was listing one "in transit" (and not sold yet), at was selling it at MSRP...!

...but with a slew of dealer add-ons at marked up prices or it'd go on the market!

And voila, those mark-ups come to... Well, just around $4000 in markups, I'd say. Hello market adjustment!

...For that $4K overpay from EWIW, however, I will get my car next week (not deep into next year), and can now stop hunting for it (I was spending literally 2-3 hours a day hunting for it or thinking about it, which was affecting my job performance).

(And hey, that paint guard thing may actually not be a bad idea given the "thin paint" complaints in another thread, even if overpriced!)

I am OK with this because:
  • Getting this car is a cash buy for which I'd already budgeted 35-40K (and will still qualify as being)
  • I plan to keep my car for 5-7 years or longer, so the overpay will be spread out
  • My previous DD was a car I bought used in 2016, and sold two weeks ago for $1500 more than I'd paid for it!
    • KBB value on my car (as a private sale) a year ago was $3000 less than I sold it for!
    • So by my reckoning, most of my overpay is thus a transfer of "market adjustment" from my former car being overvalued due to the shortage
Your mileage may vary.

May we all find the car we want at a price we can accept!
Oh, and now my local Honda dealership - Paragon Honda of Woodside, NY - actually has my exact desired car listed on their website, with a VIN and everything that's a few digits lower (built earlier) than the one I have bought and am awaiting in transit: a pearl white 2022 Civic HB Sport Touring with a 6MT.

But, even though I'd contacted them three times in September and early October looking to "place an order" or find some way of guaranteeing delivery of this configuration, they never said they could do so, and only said they'd put me on the list for "if this car ever comes up".

Well it did, and they never contacted me. They are listing it for a +5000 "market adjustment" over MSRP, though. They may also have already sold it (I pinged them yesterday saying "hey this showed up on your website, I told you I wanted this exact configuration, is it actually available?", and got no reply).

So... Yeah, I know I locked in an outrageous overpay to buy from a far distant dealer, but I also got the car and also "got something for my money" in the overpay (HPD package, wheel locks, all-weather package, window tinting, paint guard...).

And what happened to that "none like that are even in the production line yet for our region" line? If the car they are listing at Paragon has a VIN ending in 000655, and the one that arrived to the dealership near Las Vegas on Thu., 10/21 has a VIN ending in 00668, and they're all being built in the same plant in Indiana, doesn't that mean the one Paragon either has got or is in transit was built BEFORE this one was?
 

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2022 Civic Hatchback ST 6MT in PWP
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Imagine spending 5k over MSRP for a Civic :ROFLMAO:. The mental gymnastics to justify markups is insane for something that is mass produced.
But avoiding markup was not my top priority... Getting the best car for my needs and wants for a 40K OTD cash budget (no financing), and before the end of this year, was my priority.

And the car I know I overpaid for, relative to its price history, fits that description the best. But I'm not paying for its history, I'm paying for what I can get now.

I'd rather overpay for exactly what I want than feel like "I got a good deal" on something where I'd constantly wish I'd gotten something different for the next 4 years.

For example, all the people in various comment sections who are saying stuff like "once you get to 35K on a Civic HB why not just get a GTI?", one answer is, you can't get a GTI right now at all, and another would be, if you could, it'd probably be for over 40K if a Civic HB is going for 35K right now.

(And that's not even addressing the fact that I like the Civic HB better than the GTI in a lot of ways, not least of which is the expected 7-year reliability)

Part of the reason I'm putting myself out there "like a dummy" to admit I pulled the trigger on the dealer overcharges is because I suspect there are lots of people like me, maybe not on this board though, because these cars were all selling out before I even got to try to overpay myself.

I was 0 for 7 before nailing my "bad deal" as better than "no deal". People love to say "I refuse to pay over MSRP" and "I found a dealer who sold for MSRP with no markup, why can't you", but not everyone has the same target car, and not everybody is in an area where dealers are working that way who actually have cars to sell.

More power to those with the fortune to find a good deal or the willpower to sit it out, but I'm not ashamed to say what happened with me. If the overcharge market collapses by March, then OK, I super overpaid for getting my car by five months; but I'm thinking while it may die down somewhat, the "shortage" will go for at least another 8 months, and I cannot wait that long.
 

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But avoiding markup was not my top priority... Getting the best car for my needs and wants for a 40K OTD budget, and before the end of this year, was my priority.

And the car I know I overpaid for, relative to its price history, fits that description the best. But I'm not paying for its history, I'm paying for what I can get now.

I'd rather overpay for exactly what I want than feel like "I got a good deal" on something where I'd constantly wish I'd gotten something different for the next 4 years.

For example, all the people in various comment sections who are saying stuff like "once you get to 35K on a Civic HB why not just get a GTI?", one answer is, you can't get a GTI right now at all, and another would be, if you could, it'd probably be for over 40K if a Civic HB is going for 35K right now.

(And that's not even addressing the fact that I like the Civic HB better than the GTI in a lot of ways, not least of which is the expected 7-year reliability)
Giving away free money to sleezy scumbag dealerships was not my priority. You know what I got for not getting bent over at the dealership paying markup?

Enkei wheels
Michelin tires
PPF
Ceramic window tint
Ceramic coating
This is actually getting something for your money and trust me, I ain't hurting. I came from a LR Acc Boosted Tesla Model 3, but got sick of the constant charging.

Just because hurr durr capitalism, does not mean we should be paying or encouraging others to pay markup. Just because we have the means doesn't mean we should be encouraging others to go into more debt. Just because I can go out and buy an 80k car doesn't mean I should encourage others to do the same. I get what you're saying, you got your liftback, and I hope you get what I am saying.

I hope everyone here finds a car at MSRP or less. Do not give in to these fuckidiot dealerships.
 

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2022 Civic Hatchback ST 6MT in PWP
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Giving away free money to sleezy scumbag dealerships was not my priority. You know what I got for not getting bent over at the dealership paying markup?

Enkei wheels
Michelin tires
PPF
Ceramic window tint
Ceramic coating
This is actually getting something for your money and trust me, I ain't hurting. I came from a LR Acc Boosted Tesla Model 3, but got sick of the constant charging.

Just because hurr durr capitalism, does not mean we should be paying or encouraging others to pay markup. Just because we have the means doesn't mean we should be encouraging others to go into more debt. Just because I can go out and buy an 80k car doesn't mean I should encourage others to do the same. I get what you're saying, you got your liftback, and I hope you get what I am saying.

I hope everyone here finds a car at MSRP or less. Do not give in to these fuckidiot dealerships.
I'm not "encouraging" anyone to do anything. Just saying what I paid, what I got for what I paid, and how long I spent trying to to better before deciding i found an acceptable deal. That is all.

"Do not give in to the dealer" sounds great, but if you are so much better at it than I or others might be, maybe become an agent because I'd have paid someone up to a $4000 commission to find my car for me, since that's ultimately what I paid the dealer in overcharge. To me it's the same.

You telling me I should not have accepted the deal that I took, which is apparently the case, is not helpful unless you actually had a way to meet my stated goal.

I also did get PPF and ceramic tint (3M) included. At what I assume were inflated installation costs, if you got them at the dealer as well. Technically I paid MSRP "for the car" and overpaid for all the add-ons, my estimate of a $4K markup was based on it I'd have gotten it at all, installed it myself, or at a local shop later.
 

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Giving away free money to sleezy scumbag dealerships was not my priority. You know what I got for not getting bent over at the dealership paying markup?

Enkei wheels
Michelin tires
PPF
Ceramic window tint
Ceramic coating
This is actually getting something for your money and trust me, I ain't hurting. I came from a LR Acc Boosted Tesla Model 3, but got sick of the constant charging.

Just because hurr durr capitalism, does not mean we should be paying or encouraging others to pay markup. Just because we have the means doesn't mean we should be encouraging others to go into more debt. Just because I can go out and buy an 80k car doesn't mean I should encourage others to do the same. I get what you're saying, you got your liftback, and I hope you get what I am saying.

I hope everyone here finds a car at MSRP or less. Do not give in to these fuckidiot dealerships.
I'm not "encouraging" anyone to do anything. Just saying what I paid, what I got for what I paid, and how long I spent trying to to better before deciding i found an acceptable deal. That is all.

"Do not give in to the dealer" sounds great, but if you are so much better at it than I or others might be, maybe become an agent because I'd have paid someone up to a $4000 commission to find my car for me, since that's ultimately what I paid the dealer in overcharge. To me it's the same.

You telling me I should not have accepted the deal that I took, which is apparently the case, is not helpful unless you actually had a way to meet my stated goal.

I also did get PPF and ceramic tint (3M) included. At what I assume were inflated installation costs, if you got them at the dealer as well. Technically I paid MSRP "for the car" and overpaid for all the add-ons, my estimate of a $4K markup was based on it I'd have gotten it at all, installed it myself, or at a local shop later.
 

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I'm not "encouraging" anyone to do anything. Just saying what I paid, what I got for what I paid, and how long I spent trying to to better before deciding i found an acceptable deal. That is all.

"Do not give in to the dealer" sounds great, but if you are so much better at it than I or others might be, maybe become an agent because I'd have paid someone up to a $4000 commission to find my car for me, since that's ultimately what I paid the dealer in overcharge. To me it's the same.

You telling me I should not have accepted the deal that I took, which is apparently the case, is not helpful unless you actually had a way to meet my stated goal.

I also did get PPF and ceramic tint (3M) included. At what I assume were inflated installation costs, if you got them at the dealer as well. Technically I paid MSRP "for the car" and overpaid for all the add-ons, my estimate of a $4K markup was based on it I'd have gotten it at all, installed it myself, or at a local shop later.

You are literally justifying yourself in this thread. You honestly did not have to respond to cleangreen, but it's obvious you felt some type of way, since you couldn't just come in here and post what you paid. I responded to you, because I do not want others to be encouraged in paying over MSRP. I am literally saying fuck dealerships, what makes you think I paid them a cent more for tint and ceramic? lol

Anyway, I'm going to stop de-railing this thread, but for anyone out there do not pay over MSRP. Do not put yourself in more debt than needed. Do not give in to these fucking scumbag dealerships your hard earned money. It is not worth it, take your lady or guy somewhere nice for the extra 5k. Buy experiences, fuck the material things.
 

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Closest thing I can get here locally or surrounding areas are MSRP plus 1k for tint/door guards for a hatch. I’d really like to just find one at straight MSRP with no add-ons and be content with that since I never pay MSRP for any vehicles.
 
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