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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After months of waiting, a Meteorite Gray Metallic HB sport touring popped up in my area. Based on posts I'd seen, I was prepared to stupidly pay up to 3K over MSRP for this. I fully expected to be driving this home today.
Then I saw the price, $39,590.
$5,995 in direct markup + $3,180 in addons (mostly I didn't want).

Addons:
$995 for GPS tracking / stolen vehicle recovery
$895 environmental protection package (clear coat sealant)
$595 Vehicle protection package (door edge guards, wheel locks, nitrogen tire inflation)
$695 for alarm

After all the back and forth (mumbo jumbo sales tactics), they eliminated all of the addons and took $1,200 off the $5,995 markup. I wasn't willing to pay $4,795 over MSRP in pure dealer markup, and I walked.
Of course the dealer said that I'm going to find the same thing everywhere I go.
I hope he's wrong. Of course, they were the only one's with any in stock as of today (let alone the color I want). Doesn't look like any dealer near me is getting this car in this color with black interior soon. None on the way. Doh!

I ALMOST regret not doing it. I have no idea how long it will take to find one without being gouged.

I'm considering searching south Nevada and east Arizona to see if anything is different with the markups. I'd drive.

What a bummer!
 

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2022 Honda Civic ST Sonic Gray Pearl
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I got riverside down to 3k over msrp, but I had to accept theftpatrol and some other bs. I paid 33,600. They gave me midrange KBB for my trade. They beat 3 other dealers on net price (including trade) by over 2k

But I had to "walk out" and wait for the guy to stop me in the parking lot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You paid $33,600 + tax and license ya? Good to know. I would have done that. What color did you get? Congrats!
Which other dealers did you try? (could be a timesaver for me!) I was at Moss Bros Honda in Moreno Valley. The $35,210 they ended up at came with ZERO addons. Just pure markup.

I got riverside down to 3k over msrp, but I had to accept theftpatrol and some other bs. I paid 33,600. They gave me midrange KBB for my trade. They beat 3 other dealers on net price (including trade) by over 2k

But I had to "walk out" and wait for the guy to stop me in the parking lot.
 

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I was buying a Sedan Touring at the end of September and here is what I found for phone/email quotes for the most part. Some said they would negotiate in-person. I did buy from AutoNation Valencia and I would recommend them if they have what you want, even though it was a bit of a trek. My notes are a little inconsistent, but I tried to cleanup as much as I could and I still thing it will be helpful. (Tourings seems to be very low stock right now everywhere. I think Honda messed up on their projections.)

  • AutoNation Honda - Valencia = 1950 pro package (window tint, door edge guards, mud flaps, floor mats, trunk tray) (since they were easy to work with, they had the accessories I mostly wanted (even if pricey), and they did not have an extra alarm, I was happy to purchase from them)
  • Carson Honda = 1000 market + 995 alarm
  • DCH Gardena Honda = 1000 market + 2100 accessories incl KARR alarm
  • Norm Reeves Honda Superstore Cerritos = 795 clear film protect + 585 pro package + 1295 alarm + 795 repel shield
  • Riverside Honda = 2000 market + 3000 accessories
  • Unicars Honda = 3000 market + 1899 accessories (said they would negotiate, but I wasn't going to drive to Indio to find out)
  • Downey Honda = 5990 (1/2 market, 1/2 accessories if I remember correctly, no in-person negotiation possible)
  • Spreen Honda Corona = 1895 alarm + 1495 appearance package + 995 door edge guard + 125 wheel locks + 995 window tint + 1295 protection package
  • Airport Marina Honda = 3995 market + 1995 KARR alarm + 1495 paint protect (didn't like them as they said other dealers wouldn't be honest about their markup over the phone)
 

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2022 Honda Civic ST Sonic Gray Pearl
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You paid $33,600 + tax and license ya? Good to know. I would have done that. What color did you get? Congrats!
Which other dealers did you try? (could be a timesaver for me!) I was at Moss Bros Honda in Moreno Valley. The $35,210 they ended up at came with ZERO addons. Just pure markup.
Yeah 33600 was the selling price of the car. Then add tax / license. They wanted 3k in accessories and 3k dealer markup, total of 6k over MSRP. When we had a deal it was 3k over MSRP, minus some of the accessories. 33600 included the car, theftpatrol (which I may not even have them install), and some kind of paint coating/protection package which I don't even care about. I was in and out in about 2 hours.

I shopped Temecula, Moreno Valley, Loma Linda, and Riverside. I just emailed them all and asked for best price. I walked into Temecula first since they're local. Dude said 9k over MSRP and wouldn't negotiate or even discuss it. The whole conversation took about 10 minutes and after I walked out they never called me. I went to Riverside next because I liked the gray. Moreno Valley was gonna be next after that because over email they wanted 6k over MSRP. I'm sure I could have gotten them down to 33600 like Riverside.

Don't forget they offered me mid-range for my trade in. I was trading a 3 year old Mercedes. KBB had it at 40-44k and the dealer gave me 42k which meant they made several thousand on that side of the deal. Overall, I got screwed and the dealer made a bunch of money off me. But I was playing the market in general. Two months ago my merc was worth 30k, now its in the mid 40s so I decided to dump it while the market was hot for a trade-in. I'll drive an over-priced civic for two years, then re-evaluate. Overall, I really like this car.

I got the sonic gray pearl. After owning 3 white cars in a row, I decided to switch it up. I really like the color. Especially after tinting it and having a 5 year ceramic coat and put on.

Here's some motivation for you LOL:

Wheel Tire Car Sky Vehicle


Tire Wheel Car Vehicle Sky


Wheel Tire Vehicle Automotive tail & brake light Window


Vehicle registration plate Automotive tail & brake light Plant Vehicle Sky
 

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2022 Honda Civic ST Sonic Gray Pearl
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I was buying a Sedan Touring at the end of September and here is what I found for phone/email quotes for the most part. Some said they would negotiate in-person. I did buy from AutoNation Valencia and I would recommend them if they have what you want, even though it was a bit of a trek. My notes are a little inconsistent, but I tried to cleanup as much as I could and I still thing it will be helpful. (Tourings seems to be very low stock right now everywhere. I think Honda messed up on their projections.)

  • AutoNation Honda - Valencia = 1950 pro package (window tint, door edge guards, mud flaps, floor mats, trunk tray) (since they were easy to work with, they had the accessories I mostly wanted (even if pricey), and they did not have an extra alarm, I was happy to purchase from them)
  • Carson Honda = 1000 market + 995 alarm
  • DCH Gardena Honda = 1000 market + 2100 accessories incl KARR alarm
  • Norm Reeves Honda Superstore Cerritos = 795 clear film protect + 585 pro package + 1295 alarm + 795 repel shield
  • Riverside Honda = 2000 market + 3000 accessories
  • Unicars Honda = 3000 market + 1899 accessories (said they would negotiate, but I wasn't going to drive to Indio to find out)
  • Downey Honda = 5990 (1/2 market, 1/2 accessories if I remember correctly, no in-person negotiation possible)
  • Spreen Honda Corona = 1895 alarm + 1495 appearance package + 995 door edge guard + 125 wheel locks + 995 window tint + 1295 protection package
  • Airport Marina Honda = 3995 market + 1995 KARR alarm + 1495 paint protect (didn't like them as they said other dealers wouldn't be honest about their markup over the phone)
Other dealers aren't honest about their markup over the phone. That part is true. Riverside told me the same thing over the phone and also via email, 2k over MSRP and 3k in accessories. But when I walked in the dealer markup was 3k, not 2k. Spreen Honda emailed me quote that looked good at first, no markup. I got excited, but they were a little far from me so I called them and that's when they hit me with the accessories.

There is also a variance on how much dealers will come down on their markups and accessories. Don't forget, its not like Honda is charging dealers more for these cars. All these insane prices are purely dealer profits. They're simply taking advantage of perceived tight supply. Sure, some cars have a tight supply, but there are plenty of civics out there waiting to be bought.
 

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Other dealers aren't honest about their markup over the phone. That part is true.
I get that some dealers aren't honest on the markup, but when the dealer telling me this fact is also quoting me ~$7,500 over (which was the highest I found) is trying to tell me others aren't honest, that's a bit desperate.

Separately, if you are looking to sell a car, I would suggest Shift.com. I moved here from Texas this summer and decided to sell my low mileage 2015 Civic EX to Shift before I left Texas. I got 85% of what I paid for it new and it was nice to have them do the whole deal at my place and not have to take it anywhere. I did go to a Honda dealer and a CarMax and had also done a couple of other online quotes, but Shift was the best (e.g. I got $16,770 from Shift and I think the dealer was at $14,000. CarMax was close at $16,000, but not having to stop back there while trying to pack up and getting more was definitely better).
 

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I get that some dealers aren't honest on the markup, but when the dealer telling me this fact is also quoting me ~$7,500 over (which was the highest I found) is trying to tell me others aren't honest, that's a bit desperate.

Separately, if you are looking to sell a car, I would suggest Shift.com. I moved here from Texas this summer and decided to sell my low mileage 2015 Civic EX to Shift before I left Texas. I got 85% of what I paid for it new and it was nice to have them do the whole deal at my place and not have to take it anywhere. I did go to a Honda dealer and a CarMax and had also done a couple of other online quotes, but Shift was the best (e.g. I got $16,770 from Shift and I think the dealer was at $14,000. CarMax was close at $16,000, but not having to stop back there while trying to pack up and getting more was definitely better).
Carmax offered me 38k, Riverside gave me 42k and I'm sure I could have sold private party for 44-46k. I've never heard of shift, but I don't mind selling to a dealer for less if it saves me some time and effort. Granted, selling private party and making an extra couple grand is probably worth it to some people, but I'm working full time and going to school full time so I just decided to make it easy on myself LOL
 

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Shift is one of those online car dealerships and if you are selling, you give them your car details online and they give you a quote. You then schedule for them to come to you to inspect your car (I think I lost ~$200 on the original quote cause I made a 2,000 mileage typo and had a little curb rash, but then I made a couple of hundred back cause I sold it on the spot). You sign all the paperwork there, they drive it away, and the money direct deposits into your account a couple of days later. I would say if you are honest with your car condition, there isn't anything weird, and shift gives you a good offer, it is one of the easiest ways to get rid of a car. I was a bit nervous, but it worked out really, really well. (Our alternate plan was to stop at Carmax as we drove out of town (we had done an in-person quote a few days before), but then we got delayed moving the last of the stuff, so it was nice not to have fit Carmax in still.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Super helpful, thanks! I really appreciate the effort. I'm contacting AutoNation Valencia and will look at others on your list as well. Thanks again! Maybe there should be a megathread / google sheet for this shared research.


I was buying a Sedan Touring at the end of September and here is what I found for phone/email quotes for the most part. Some said they would negotiate in-person. I did buy from AutoNation Valencia and I would recommend them if they have what you want, even though it was a bit of a trek. My notes are a little inconsistent, but I tried to cleanup as much as I could and I still thing it will be helpful. (Tourings seems to be very low stock right now everywhere. I think Honda messed up on their projections.)

  • AutoNation Honda - Valencia = 1950 pro package (window tint, door edge guards, mud flaps, floor mats, trunk tray) (since they were easy to work with, they had the accessories I mostly wanted (even if pricey), and they did not have an extra alarm, I was happy to purchase from them)
  • Carson Honda = 1000 market + 995 alarm
  • DCH Gardena Honda = 1000 market + 2100 accessories incl KARR alarm
  • Norm Reeves Honda Superstore Cerritos = 795 clear film protect + 585 pro package + 1295 alarm + 795 repel shield
  • Riverside Honda = 2000 market + 3000 accessories
  • Unicars Honda = 3000 market + 1899 accessories (said they would negotiate, but I wasn't going to drive to Indio to find out)
  • Downey Honda = 5990 (1/2 market, 1/2 accessories if I remember correctly, no in-person negotiation possible)
  • Spreen Honda Corona = 1895 alarm + 1495 appearance package + 995 door edge guard + 125 wheel locks + 995 window tint + 1295 protection package
  • Airport Marina Honda = 3995 market + 1995 KARR alarm + 1495 paint protect (didn't like them as they said other dealers wouldn't be honest about their markup over the phone)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Some beautiful motivation right there, congrats and thanks! =D
Moreno Valley told you 6K markup, but they didn't mention the $3,280 in addons on top of that. As mentioned, they waived the addons and bottomed out at $4,795 over MSRP before I walked. That 4.8k over was including nothing, just pure markup. Hell no.
Lol, I've also had 3 white cars in a row as well. I last went from a 2001 Civic to a 2016 Civic Touring. I said I wasn't going to get a Honda, and it couldn't be white. Ended up getting getting a white Honda Civic, again!
This time though... there's NO WAY. Cannot be white. =D


Yeah 33600 was the selling price of the car. Then add tax / license. They wanted 3k in accessories and 3k dealer markup, total of 6k over MSRP. When we had a deal it was 3k over MSRP, minus some of the accessories. 33600 included the car, theftpatrol (which I may not even have them install), and some kind of paint coating/protection package which I don't even care about. I was in and out in about 2 hours.

I shopped Temecula, Moreno Valley, Loma Linda, and Riverside. I just emailed them all and asked for best price. I walked into Temecula first since they're local. Dude said 9k over MSRP and wouldn't negotiate or even discuss it. The whole conversation took about 10 minutes and after I walked out they never called me. I went to Riverside next because I liked the gray. Moreno Valley was gonna be next after that because over email they wanted 6k over MSRP. I'm sure I could have gotten them down to 33600 like Riverside.

Don't forget they offered me mid-range for my trade in. I was trading a 3 year old Mercedes. KBB had it at 40-44k and the dealer gave me 42k which meant they made several thousand on that side of the deal. Overall, I got screwed and the dealer made a bunch of money off me. But I was playing the market in general. Two months ago my merc was worth 30k, now its in the mid 40s so I decided to dump it while the market was hot for a trade-in. I'll drive an over-priced civic for two years, then re-evaluate. Overall, I really like this car.

I got the sonic gray pearl. After owning 3 white cars in a row, I decided to switch it up. I really like the color. Especially after tinting it and having a 5 year ceramic coat and put on.

Here's some motivation for you LOL:

View attachment 4703

View attachment 4704

View attachment 4705

View attachment 4706
 

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Wow, after reading all this I definitely feel like I got jipped on price. I just purchased mine this past week for $43k out the door.

I'm from Elk Grove, CA and was looking specifically for a sport touring in a 6-speed manual. Most dealers in the Northern California area didn't have it in stock. The internet sales guy at Shottenkirk Honda in Davis, CA said he could get one the next day if I signed a contract before and quoted me $43,xxx plus title, tax and licensing. The guy couldn't even tell me where it was coming from and how he got that price so I didn't want to deal with that shadiness.

Then I found one with the spoiler at Spreen Honda Loma Linda in Loma Linda, CA online and decided to email them. The lady that emailed me back quoted me $30,810 and thinking it was too good to be true, I asked if this was the purchase price plus tax, title and licensing and she said yes; all on record through email. We scheduled a time and she said she'll meet me at the dealership on agreed date and time. I made the 7 hour drive commitment to go down to do a deal and when I walk into the dealership, of course I'm greeted by the sales agent and he states that the lady was an internet sales person and their job is just to schedule appointments. So why did she said "she'll meet me at the dealership"? Red flag #1.

I walked over to the car and look at the Moroney sticker to see that the car was marked up as stated by @wcj1 and asked the sales person if they would honor the pricing that was on e-mail with the "certificate of guarantee" bs. Of course they say no and their sales manager says he'll do $45k out the door just because I made the long trip down to see the car. Nowadays, most dealerships won't even commit to giving you the best out the door price over e-mail or phone because it's sales 101; if the customer doesn't walk through the door, you have a 100% chance of not getting a deal.

Ended up driving back up to Piercey Honda in Milpitas, CA and found a 2022 Sport Touring in Platinum Pearl White in a manual and had them throw in the HPD package for what I overpaid for. BLEH. Car buying experience will ALWAYS suck
 

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People are marking these things up like they are C8 Stingrays. I guess they figure they can get away with it as long as people will pay what they want. So glad I found a dealer here that, at least, sold one to me at MSRP. I usually always try to pay as close to invoice as possible, but I really didn't haggle this time.
 

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Wow, after reading all this I definitely feel like I got jipped on price. I just purchased mine this past week for $43k out the door.

I'm from Elk Grove, CA and was looking specifically for a sport touring in a 6-speed manual. Most dealers in the Northern California area didn't have it in stock. The internet sales guy at Shottenkirk Honda in Davis, CA said he could get one the next day if I signed a contract before and quoted me $43,xxx plus title, tax and licensing. The guy couldn't even tell me where it was coming from and how he got that price so I didn't want to deal with that shadiness.

Then I found one with the spoiler at Spreen Honda Loma Linda in Loma Linda, CA online and decided to email them. The lady that emailed me back quoted me $30,810 and thinking it was too good to be true, I asked if this was the purchase price plus tax, title and licensing and she said yes; all on record through email. We scheduled a time and she said she'll meet me at the dealership on agreed date and time. I made the 7 hour drive commitment to go down to do a deal and when I walk into the dealership, of course I'm greeted by the sales agent and he states that the lady was an internet sales person and their job is just to schedule appointments. So why did she said "she'll meet me at the dealership"? Red flag #1.

I walked over to the car and look at the Moroney sticker to see that the car was marked up as stated by @wcj1 and asked the sales person if they would honor the pricing that was on e-mail with the "certificate of guarantee" bs. Of course they say no and their sales manager says he'll do $45k out the door just because I made the long trip down to see the car. Nowadays, most dealerships won't even commit to giving you the best out the door price over e-mail or phone because it's sales 101; if the customer doesn't walk through the door, you have a 100% chance of not getting a deal.

Ended up driving back up to Piercey Honda in Milpitas, CA and found a 2022 Sport Touring in Platinum Pearl White in a manual and had them throw in the HPD package for what I overpaid for. BLEH. Car buying experience will ALWAYS suck
Yeah, your experience mirrors mine, and in more than one way, curiously enough...

Like you, I was specifically targeting this particular configuration (and in white) and practically nobody had one anywhere near me, they were all far away and also already bought before the car even hit the lot.

Under that kind of inventory pressure I caved and did a deal I would never otherwise have done, which I've told many times already so I won't repeat it here. The upselling I can live with, as long as it's up front and open; you can (try to take (succeed at taking) my money, but please don't waste my time as well.

Anyway, long story short, the dealer I eventually did buy remotely from (Findlay Honda near Las Vegas) said his was the only white six-speed HB Sport Touring not yet sold "on the West Coast". The car had shown up on a Cars.com search I did on 10/19 but curiously, not on the Honda dealership online inventory search (usually it was the other way around). He said that California dealers had been hounding him to buy this car as soon as it had been allocated to his dealership, which annoyed him, so he had marked the car as "sold" on their Honda inventory system until it physically arrived, which would be very soon (turned out it would be the next day, the 20th).

It wouldn't surprise me if the "dealers on the coasts" (the large metro areas of California, NY/NJ, Washington DC area) are raiding interior dealers for inventory by paying way over MSRP and then passing along the markup to desperados like you and me. They may even have a kickback cut on the fleece jobs.

So that's a bit of a hint for anybody looking for a unicorn configuration - the cars.com inventory search is maintained separately from the dealership inventory!
 

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Pretty sure there isn't much inventory swapping going on in the car industry right now.
Right, but it 's another way that the markups can get spread out from one region to another...

For example I ended up buying from Findlay Honda in Henderson, NV at what I computed to be around a $3.5-4K markup.

Meanwhile, these dealers in SoCal that SlowPanda dealt with were trying for $9K markup, and found at least one taker in him.

And the sales guy I talked to from Findlay said he'd been hounded by SoCal dealers to buy his car.

So putting that all together, it reads like they were trying to buy the one I got from him at a markup, to then sell at an even higher markup, but only if they got someone to buy at "their" markup. Like what guy at Shottenkirk was up to, described as he could get one the next day if I signed a contract before and quoted me $43,xxx plus title, tax and licensing. The guy couldn't even tell me where it was coming from...

I nean, 43K BEFORE tax/title/reg is what, 13K over MSRP? 11-12K-ish, at best, if it includes stuff like HPD and other accessories? But only if he "signed now" to buy at that price? Feels like he had a deal with another dealer "further inland" willing to sell immediately for $35K, then to pay a couple hundred to ship it to SoCal, to fulfill his sale for 43K - both dealers make like $7K from what they paid (since invoice is even lower than MSRP) off of the same buyer.

Probably not a lot of buyers going to pay more than $35K (if that much) for a Civic in Nevada, but if they exist in SoCal... Arbitrage!
 

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I was buying a Sedan Touring at the end of September and here is what I found for phone/email quotes for the most part. Some said they would negotiate in-person. I did buy from AutoNation Valencia and I would recommend them if they have what you want, even though it was a bit of a trek. My notes are a little inconsistent, but I tried to cleanup as much as I could and I still thing it will be helpful. (Tourings seems to be very low stock right now everywhere. I think Honda messed up on their projections.)

  • AutoNation Honda - Valencia = 1950 pro package (window tint, door edge guards, mud flaps, floor mats, trunk tray) (since they were easy to work with, they had the accessories I mostly wanted (even if pricey), and they did not have an extra alarm, I was happy to purchase from them)
  • Carson Honda = 1000 market + 995 alarm
  • DCH Gardena Honda = 1000 market + 2100 accessories incl KARR alarm
  • Norm Reeves Honda Superstore Cerritos = 795 clear film protect + 585 pro package + 1295 alarm + 795 repel shield
  • Riverside Honda = 2000 market + 3000 accessories
  • Unicars Honda = 3000 market + 1899 accessories (said they would negotiate, but I wasn't going to drive to Indio to find out)
  • Downey Honda = 5990 (1/2 market, 1/2 accessories if I remember correctly, no in-person negotiation possible)
  • Spreen Honda Corona = 1895 alarm + 1495 appearance package + 995 door edge guard + 125 wheel locks + 995 window tint + 1295 protection package
  • Airport Marina Honda = 3995 market + 1995 KARR alarm + 1495 paint protect (didn't like them as they said other dealers wouldn't be honest about their markup over the phone)
Adding my SoCal experience:

  • Diamond Valley Honda: $0 market + $985 "pro pack" (wheel locks, trunk tray, mud guards, door edge guards)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
No way!!!! Did you get the HB? What trim and color? Congrats!
Diamond Valley Honda is about 1.5 miles from me. I didn't know what their deal was but I've been waiting for them to get the color I want. That's amazing if the best deal I can find is next to home.
Thanks for sharing!!

Adding my SoCal experience:

  • Diamond Valley Honda: $0 market + $985 "pro pack" (wheel locks, trunk tray, mud guards, door edge guards)
 
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