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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I need a new car before mid October, due to lease being up, so I'm trying to decide whether to put down a deposit on the manual Sport Touring hatch now, or risk it, and wait a little longer for the Si. I already test drove the CVT Touring sedan, and thought it was a very well balanced street car, in terms of handling and power. What really surprised me is it felt a lot better than the BMW 230i, which I also test drove, which costs 10k more... I definitely want the manual trans though, and I think I would prefer the utility of the hatchback, since I want to keep the car for a long time.

I currently drive a manual GTI, and while I enjoy the power/torque, I don't like the transmission feel though, and I find the ride slightly too stiff. I truly enjoy the car maybe 30% of the time, at other times, it gets on my nerves, or I don't actually have any fun driving it. Also, there are no twisty roads to drive in my city.

Given all that, would the Sport Touring hatch probably meet my needs better? I worry that I may regret not getting the Si later though, due to more power/ better handling. I also recognize I'm trying to make a decision based on cars I can't even test drive yet, but unfortunately, tight timeline.
 

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2019 Honda Civic Coupe EX - Aegean Blue
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It seems to me like the ST hatch would suit your needs better. If they were going to make an Si hatch, I would suggest that, but it doesn't seem like that's happening for the time being.

And if the power is an issue, a Hondata tune would relieve most of those issues. With the improved handling of the new civic I feel like near Si levels of performance would only be maybe a set of tires and some very minor upgrades away. Maybe not 100% but 90% would be more than doable for a comfortable daily driver that has all the creature comforts and a manual.
 

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I need a new car before mid October, due to lease being up, so I'm trying to decide whether to put down a deposit on the manual Sport Touring hatch now, or risk it, and wait a little longer for the Si. I already test drove the CVT Touring sedan, and thought it was a very well balanced street car, in terms of handling and power. What really surprised me is it felt a lot better than the BMW 230i, which I also test drove, which costs 10k more... I definitely want the manual trans though, and I think I would prefer the utility of the hatchback, since I want to keep the car for a long time.

I currently drive a manual GTI, and while I enjoy the power/torque, I don't like the transmission feel though, and I find the ride slightly too stiff. I truly enjoy the car maybe 30% of the time, at other times, it gets on my nerves, or I don't actually have any fun driving it. Also, there are no twisty roads to drive in my city.

Given all that, would the Sport Touring hatch probably meet my needs better? I worry that I may regret not getting the Si later though, due to more power/ better handling. I also recognize I'm trying to make a decision based on cars I can't even test drive yet, but unfortunately, tight timeline.
Hey @qwerasdfzxcvbnm, welcome to the forum. If I were you I'd go with the Sport Touring hatchback because it offers more practicality for you and you don't risk waiting. It also allows you to switch to the Si later if you're really wowed by it.
 

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It seems to me like the ST hatch would suit your needs better. If they were going to make an Si hatch, I would suggest that, but it doesn't seem like that's happening for the time being.

And if the power is an issue, a Hondata tune would relieve most of those issues. With the improved handling of the new civic I feel like near Si levels of performance would only be maybe a set of tires and some very minor upgrades away. Maybe not 100% but 90% would be more than doable for a comfortable daily driver that has all the creature comforts and a manual.
I went Googling for info on this, and found this forum - looks like fun!

Long story short: I am looking to move from my 2007 Acura TSX to the 11th Gen Civic, either the STHB or the Si, after they are available.

I've decided I'd rather keep the leather and get the hatch with the STHB, adding some power to it to be "Si-like" via a tune (which already existed for the 10th gen STHB), than to stay with the sedan and go with the Si.

Sure it won't have the LSD or sportier suspension, but being softer for daily driving isn't necessarily a bad thing, and my TSX doesn't have an LSD either. And I can always drop one in later if I feel I must give it a go.

However, my question is, how much does the tune improve the rolling acceleration? My wife has a 2016 Civic EX-T, and while the large low-end power surge with the non-VTEC 1.5T engine is noticeable (compared to my TSX with the K24A2 engine), I've found the passing power at speed to be lacking.

The stock 2020 Civic Si, however, has C&D instrumented testing of 0-60 of 6.7s and 5-60 of 7.7s, which is more like what I'm hoping to get in moving from my TSX (at least the same, if not better performance, with far better fuel economy in daily driving).

So exactly how much does a Hondata reflash type tuning of the Sport HB make it "Si-like"? Is that entirely based on power (seems like it would be)? I couldn't find any "instrumented test results" of a before-and-after retune of the stock non-Si 10G Civic, even if we can assume similar impact with a tuning for the 11G.

And what impact does such a tune have on the fuel economy? Does it require 91 octane? Like, would using regular 87 effectively "de-tune" the car, or end up with something in the middle?
 

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I went Googling for info on this, and found this forum - looks like fun!

Long story short: I am looking to move from my 2007 Acura TSX to the 11th Gen Civic, either the STHB or the Si, after they are available.

I've decided I'd rather keep the leather and get the hatch with the STHB, adding some power to it to be "Si-like" via a tune (which already existed for the 10th gen STHB), than to stay with the sedan and go with the Si.

Sure it won't have the LSD or sportier suspension, but being softer for daily driving isn't necessarily a bad thing, and my TSX doesn't have an LSD either. And I can always drop one in later if I feel I must give it a go.

However, my question is, how much does the tune improve the rolling acceleration? My wife has a 2016 Civic EX-T, and while the large low-end power surge with the non-VTEC 1.5T engine is noticeable (compared to my TSX with the K24A2 engine), I've found the passing power at speed to be lacking.

The stock 2020 Civic Si, however, has C&D instrumented testing of 0-60 of 6.7s and 5-60 of 7.7s, which is more like what I'm hoping to get in moving from my TSX (at least the same, if not better performance, with far better fuel economy in daily driving).

So exactly how much does a Hondata reflash type tuning of the Sport HB make it "Si-like"? Is that entirely based on power (seems like it would be)? I couldn't find any "instrumented test results" of a before-and-after retune of the stock non-Si 10G Civic, even if we can assume similar impact with a tuning for the 11G.

And what impact does such a tune have on the fuel economy? Does it require 91 octane? Like, would using regular 87 effectively "de-tune" the car, or end up with something in the middle?
It's also worth noting, there were different tunes available for the 10th gen from Hondata and Ktuner, and multiple maps offered from each of them to achieve different results. There were mountains of forums dedicated to arguing the fine points of torque delivery, acceleration, passing between the two with their regular base maps. As for fuel type needed, I'm not sure, that would be a question for Hondata or Ktuner, didn't the Si require premium fuel though? If so, that wouldn't really be a loss by comparison.

I too am waiting to see when info is available for the Hondata tune that doesn't just give us power figures but actual performance numbers like 0-60 and passing times so that I can see a measurable improvement... we all know that hp and torque numbers don't tell the whole story. I will say that, overall, from what I read, the tunes didn't effect fuel consumption too heavily, maybe a loss of 2-3 mpg on average (obviously more if driven hard constantly, but thats any engine/tune).

And yes Si-Like because the ST won't have the LSD or revised suspension tuning/setup. And we don't have final numbers for the 11th gen Si yet... but comparing the 10th gen Si numbers (think like lateral grip, etc) to the stock 11th gen Touring Sedan, those numbers aren't too far off. A good set of tires could easily get the ST to grip like an Si, the differences will be more in how the car launches (because LSD) and overall "feel" without suspension updates.

But from a standpoint of not spending a fortune on mods, tires and a hondata tune will get you much closer to Si-like numbers and overall elevate the car to be more fun for daily driving, coupled with the features the ST will have, wouldn't make someone possibly regret not getting the less content rich Si instead. It's less about creating a 1:1 comparison and more about making the trade-off in performance less drastic while having all the great new features in a daily driver.
 

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I went Googling for info on this, and found this forum - looks like fun!

Long story short: I am looking to move from my 2007 Acura TSX to the 11th Gen Civic, either the STHB or the Si, after they are available.

I've decided I'd rather keep the leather and get the hatch with the STHB, adding some power to it to be "Si-like" via a tune (which already existed for the 10th gen STHB), than to stay with the sedan and go with the Si.

Sure it won't have the LSD or sportier suspension, but being softer for daily driving isn't necessarily a bad thing, and my TSX doesn't have an LSD either. And I can always drop one in later if I feel I must give it a go.

However, my question is, how much does the tune improve the rolling acceleration? My wife has a 2016 Civic EX-T, and while the large low-end power surge with the non-VTEC 1.5T engine is noticeable (compared to my TSX with the K24A2 engine), I've found the passing power at speed to be lacking.

The stock 2020 Civic Si, however, has C&D instrumented testing of 0-60 of 6.7s and 5-60 of 7.7s, which is more like what I'm hoping to get in moving from my TSX (at least the same, if not better performance, with far better fuel economy in daily driving).

So exactly how much does a Hondata reflash type tuning of the Sport HB make it "Si-like"? Is that entirely based on power (seems like it would be)? I couldn't find any "instrumented test results" of a before-and-after retune of the stock non-Si 10G Civic, even if we can assume similar impact with a tuning for the 11G.

And what impact does such a tune have on the fuel economy? Does it require 91 octane? Like, would using regular 87 effectively "de-tune" the car, or end up with something in the middle?
Welcome to the forum @robardin! In terms of power and torque numbers, Hondata has been able to add 34-hp and 50 lb-ft of torque to the Civic so far.

 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for all the feedback - I'll probably get the ST hatch, doubt I'll tune it, but I'll definitely get performance summer tires once the stock ones wear out. Hopefully it's still entertaining to drive, coming from the GTI.
 
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