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Civic Si Hard to Shift Fast/Easy to Shift Slowly

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fastandfun

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,

Hows it going?

I'm wondering, do you guys find the transmission somewhat hard to shift fast?
I find that I have to be slow and somewhat smooth when letting off the throttle before pressing in the clutch.

If I try to be somewhat fast with my shifts,
(Ex: to keep up with other automatic drivers I will somewhat quickly release the gas and press in the clutch when shifting from 1st to 2nd.)
I feel that I am somewhat being locked out of second gear for a fraction of a second.

This feeling is not like the normal positive notchy-ness Hondas usually feel like, but the feeling is kind of like if I was trying to force 2nd gear to synchronize.
Best I can describe it is that it's kind of like if the clutch was still partially engaged and loading second gear, preventing it from synchronizing.

I don't think I'm causing the clutch pedal to not be fully depressed. Because I will sometimes try to be super focused on the clutch, and be almost standing on it when I shift.

On the contrary, If I try to gradually let off the gas and somewhat simultaneously depress the clutch pedal, (Especially if I get the timing right and the clutch disengages exactly when the engine stops pulling) the shift will be amazingly snick snick feeling chef's kiss. Like the gear slipped into place.

Do you guys feel the same feedback? Like, if you shifted fast, you would get lots of resistance. But if you slowly and smoothly let off the gas and pushed in the clutch, the shift would be effortless.

Also, do you have any tips or tricks on how to be fast but also still somewhat be easier to shift?

Thanks so much,
 
#3 ·
How new is the car?

The transmission definitely got smoother once things got broken in.

I have the base bushings, cable bushings, short throw adapter and detent springs. Together those improved the feel and notchiness a lot. I'm still waiting for Acuity to release the shifter replacement. It is such a fantastic mod.

I switched to the Amsoil MTF and it also made a difference. Swapped to it at 10k miles. I really only had issues with fast shifts into second getting gated. Other gears were fine. There is also a very large ratio difference between first and second.

There is a damper on the CMC. There is a delete kit available. I don't have it, but was planning to install that and the PRL braided line when I do my clutch.

www.procivic.com

SiriMoto N1 Clutch Master Cylinder CMC Damper Delete / Bypass Kit for Honda Civic

Product page for SiriMoto N1 Clutch Master Cylinder CMC Damper Delete / Bypass Kit fitment for the Honda Civic and older.
www.procivic.com www.procivic.com
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
ThunderPigeon said:
How new is the car?

The transmission definitely got smoother once things got broken in.

I have the base bushings, cable bushings, short throw adapter and detent springs. Together those improved the feel and notchiness a lot. I'm still waiting for Acuity to release the shifter replacement. It is such a fantastic mod.

I switched to the Amsoil MTF and it also made a difference. Swapped to it at 10k miles. I really only had issues with fast shifts into second getting gated. Other gears were fine. There is also a very large ratio difference between first and second.

There is a damper on the CMC. There is a delete kit available. I don't have it, but was planning to install that and the PRL braided line when I do my clutch.

www.procivic.com

SiriMoto N1 Clutch Master Cylinder CMC Damper Delete / Bypass Kit for Honda Civic

Product page for SiriMoto N1 Clutch Master Cylinder CMC Damper Delete / Bypass Kit fitment for the Honda Civic and older.
www.procivic.com www.procivic.com
Click to expand...
Thanks for your advice!

I've had the car for about two years so the transmission is broken in now.

Mostly looking to keep the car stock because I'm not too comfortable with modding my car yet.

In theory a clutch delay/damper valve only slows the clutch engagement and not disengagement. So assuming nothing is faulty, a delay/damper valve delete shouldn't make shifting harder right?
 
#6 ·
fastandfun said:
Thanks for your advice!

I've had the car for about two years so the transmission is broken in now.

Mostly looking to keep the car stock because I'm not too comfortable with modding my car yet.

In theory a clutch delay/damper valve only slows the clutch engagement and not disengagement. So assuming nothing is faulty, a delay/damper valve delete shouldn't make shifting harder right?
Click to expand...
The issue as I experience it is fast shifts feel like they bounce off of second as if the clutch isn't pressed. Feels to me like the damper is delaying clutch engagement and causing the issue. Which is why it doesn't happen with slow shifts.
 
#7 ·
I've got about 3K miles on my 2024 Civic Sport and I'm noticing the same thing with the 6MT. My previous car was a 2019 Golf SE. Its 6MT shifted with an effortless flow as I rowed up the gears (but was more "gatey" and reluctant at downshifts). Having said that, I guess "seamlessness" is considered less performance-oriented than "notchiness"? But "gatey" is kind of different, and I'm feeling that at times with the Civic, even for upshifts. I feel like I can't shift as fast or with as much flowy satisfaction as the Golf.

More comparison...

The Golf had a longer throw, which is also considered less performance-oriented (but seemed fine for daily driving).

Setting aside shift action, the physical feeling of the Golf shift knob was more comfortable and natural in the hand.

The clutch was about the same (which is to say, light). It was still the original when I traded the Golf at 146K miles.

Overall, I'd say the manual transmission is a wash between these two cars. The Civic shifts crisply, but somewhat reluctantly. The VW shifted with a looser-feeling flop that was nonetheless smooth and satisfying.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Thanks for your reply,

So it sounds like the reluctant shifting feeling is more to do with how the civic's throws are shorter and more performance oriented?

To be honest, this is my first manual car so I have no prior experience using other manual transmissions. So I could be just over worrying and over babying my transmission.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Also, another thing I notice is that,


when I am shifting fast during hard acceleration, sometimes, I will depress the clutch pedal right before my foot is entirely off the throttle. When this happens, the RPM will shoot up slightly or hang a bit before falling. That is normal, but I find that the the shifter is just as hard to shift when the RPMs haven't begun falling yet.


I wouldn’t say its okay to be applying throttle after the clutch pedal is depressed but, wouldn’t the shifter should feel the same regardless if the RPMs are falling or not? Maybe something I’m doing wrong…
 
#10 ·
fastandfun said:
Thanks for your reply,

So it sounds like the reluctant shifting feeling is more to do with how the civic's throws are shorter and more performance oriented?

To be honest, this is my first manual car so I have no prior experience using other manual transmissions. So I could be just over worrying and over babying my transmission.
Click to expand...
I would say the notchiness (between all gears) is a normal characteristic of the Civic's manual transmission to provide positive feedback. However, when driving spiritedly I think it slightly increases shift times compared to the less notchy VW shifter. Then again, shorter throws decrease shift times, offsetting this.

The notchy feeling may be a feature of short throw shifters to make up for the feedback you would otherwise get from a long throw.

What you describe shifting into 2nd sounds more like actual gating from the synchronizer. If so, it could be an issue with with your chosen shift point relative to RPMs. In general, I've noticed sychronizers are stodgier about "letting you in" to low gears, and more permissive with high gears. Having said that, I suppose it could be an actual problem with the synchronizer. A good Honda mechanic should be able to answer whether it's normal if you have a consistent scenario to reproduce it in a test drive.

Semi-related: It's funny that Honda has no indication of the gear on the dash (at least in the Sport). Of course, you can infer it from other things like engine noise, speed/RPMs and position of the shift lever. Nevertheless, a gear indicator is useful, along with a hint about whether you need to upshift or downshift. More data is good, as long as it's presented in an intelligent way that isn't distracting or nanny-esque.
 
#12 ·
i think they designed it to have that rev hang and that delay to help aid the rev match, when i use rev match i dont notice the delay between gears, but when im trying to upshift anything over 4k it feels like its trying to hold that rpm so you can rengage at the same gear. weird feeling. figure the car would be faster/ more fun if it didnt lag.
 
#13 ·
BlackSI said:
i think they designed it to have that rev hang and that delay to help aid the rev match, when i use rev match i dont notice the delay between gears, but when im trying to upshift anything over 4k it feels like its trying to hold that rpm so you can rengage at the same gear. weird feeling. figure the car would be faster/ more fun if it didnt lag.
Click to expand...
I read the TSP tune is supposed to help mitigate the rev hang but I haven't found that to be the case at all.
 
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