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1pt5Vtec

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Ok so it seems like everyone and their mom is making a new thread everyday because such and such dealer told them their build date is being moved.
Listen IF you don't have a VIN number provided to you by the dealer you're planning to purchase one from,YOU DO NOT,I repeat YOU DO NOT have a car coming to you. Every dealer in America and Canada has access to what the factory is gonna release and allot to them . Once a vin is posted it means the car exists,wether it be in stamping or in the dash or suspension/engine line etc etc it exists..
If you're dealer cannot provide you with a vin number that the car is coming to them and is allotted to them,then they're literally lying to you. Don't go off what they think or what they heard, nothing. Once the VIN is provided THEN the dealer has an access to a build/built by date,and approximate ship date. Every Honda dealer has the same access. Don't be a fool if they do not provide the VIN,they do not have a car coming. That simple. Please quit making a thread Wondering what's going on.. this is literally the answer everyone is asking for.

Mods sticky this please. The clutter is just piling up with the same exact question. We don't need 50+ threads of the same question. This isn't to be rude,it's just a fact. Asking the forum the same question so many times isn't going to provide any new insight or secrets.

No VIN no car. Simple.
If you're offended,find a tree and hug it or sing kumbaya or make s'mores or woosah or something.
 
#2 ·
1pt5Vtec said:
Once a vin is posted it means the car exists,wether it be in stamping or in the dash or suspension/engine line etc etc it exists..
If you're dealer cannot provide you with a vin number that the car is coming to them and is allotted to them,then they're literally lying to you. Don't go off what they think or what they heard, nothing. Once the VIN is provided THEN the dealer has an access to a build/built by date,and approximate ship date.

Mods sticky this please. The clutter is just piling up with the same exact question. We don't need 50+ threads of the same question. This isn't to be rude,it's just a fact. Asking the forum the same question so many times isn't going to provide any new insight or secrets.

No VIN no car. Simple.
If you're offended,find a tree and hug it or sing kumbaya or make s'mores or woosah or something.
Click to expand...
You have some false information here. Dealers can have allocations/allotments for vehicles but do not have VINs. Allocations and production is two different things. Allocations happen months before production. Honda Corporate will know the VIN of a vehicle well in advance before production. However VINs are only provided to dealers once the production is complete. If the dealer has a VIN then the production date is obvious in the past. Once production is complete then dealers will have a better idea of ship and arrival date.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
When the VIN is posted ,it means its being built or has been built. It's not false info. Been part of a Honda dealer since 1995. I know the system. Allocations are regional by sales. Obviously some random dealer in the middle of nowhere that only moves 200 units a year isn't going to get 30 brand new civics exactly how people want them. So yes I know what allocation is,but for the normal people out of the loop,once the VIN is provided then there is actually a unit .
That's like saying Honda is going to allocate 100,000 civics to northern California. But come up short and only produce 8000. Untill the VIN is provided there is no car. Doesn't matter how many were allocated and or allotted. If the factory hasn't produced the VIN then there is no car. You wanna know the secret. Because it's actually illegal. On the government side of things. No automotive manufacturer can produce a vin on a vehicle unless there is a vehicle in production or produced. Not prior to. The factory doesn't receive some magical list from the government allowing them to use certain vins. The vin itself identifies several things. Hence the VIN itself cannot be produced until the vehicle has been built. They don't go stamp the body after paint do they? No they don't. The vin is literally stamped prior to paint. So that would mean,once the body in white process has begun ,then a vin number can be sourced and provided. This then gets listed. Exactly how dealers can see it. Now the dealer can't tell you how far along except when it's started. When there is a physical body being built. Not months before. That's the point that you're missing. That's what I'm saying. No vin no car.
 
#4 ·
@1pt5Vtec well technically "no vin no car" is correct from a consumer point but it's short sighted. I agree that "once the VIN is provided [to the dealer] then there is actually a unit". The "unit" is not technically a unit until it has completed production.

Also, my point is Honda Corporate knows what VIN they will use prior to production. You're making it sound like they literally don't know until the car is being produced up until the VIN gets stamped. Where do you think they source the vin? It doesn't just magically get generated one minute before it gets stamped.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Dude that is literally what I'm saying. For the consumer. As in everyone quit asking here about build date delays. My point is simple,if the dealer cannot provide a vin number BUT they're telling you the build date got pushed back and they cannot provide a vin,then they're full of it. Because how would you feel as a buyer going in saying I want this car and the dealer says well give us a deposit but we don't know if we even have the car you want coming? Not much business and not much customer base for that dealer. So from a buyers point of a view, if there's no vin provided to a customer then no such car exists.
I understand what you're saying,we have what we call build sheets. Yes here even in our factory,we have an order sheet then a build sheet but still no vin. The vin is generated prior to beginning of assembly. So say Monday the order gets pushed through,then the build sheet is made Tuesday. It is then scheduled or forecasted for say Friday.....now up until the raw pieces begin the process of a car,do they get vin registered because the vin also has the build sequence and you can't have a build sequence until it begins actual physical production from body in white so on and so fourth. That's what I'm saying,yes Honda knows what they're planning to build several months in advance but no vin is listed until production begins. It is illegal,that would be a false vin. In the government eyes that's a no no.
Yes you're right Honda knows what they plan to build in advance,no no vin is created until prior production. Wether it's minutes or hours or maybe a day or week but definitely not months. That's a system I don't have access to for Honda...
 
#6 ·
I'll agree with you that it's getting really annoying with text walls from people asking where their car is.

I don't believe it is unethical if a dealer has an allocation to a car and allow the customer to put a claim on it. Because to the best of the dealer's knowledge they believe they will get it. As long as they communicate it to the customer a realistic time line.

The dealer is not able to provide a VIN if the build date is pushed back
 
#8 ·
1pt5Vtec said:
Ok so it seems like everyone and their mom is making a new thread everyday because such and such dealer told them their build date is being moved.
Listen IF you don't have a VIN number provided to you by the dealer you're planning to purchase one from,YOU DO NOT,I repeat YOU DO NOT have a car coming to you. Every dealer in America and Canada has access to what the factory is gonna release and allot to them . Once a vin is posted it means the car exists,wether it be in stamping or in the dash or suspension/engine line etc etc it exists..
If you're dealer cannot provide you with a vin number that the car is coming to them and is allotted to them,then they're literally lying to you. Don't go off what they think or what they heard, nothing. Once the VIN is provided THEN the dealer has an access to a build/built by date,and approximate ship date. Every Honda dealer has the same access. Don't be a fool if they do not provide the VIN,they do not have a car coming. That simple. Please quit making a thread Wondering what's going on.. this is literally the answer everyone is asking for.

Mods sticky this please. The clutter is just piling up with the same exact question. We don't need 50+ threads of the same question. This isn't to be rude,it's just a fact. Asking the forum the same question so many times isn't going to provide any new insight or secrets.

No VIN no car. Simple.
If you're offended,find a tree and hug it or sing kumbaya or make s'mores or woosah or something.
Click to expand...
K
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
sheltll70 said:
I have a set build date but no VIN yet. I am pretty confident that the VIN isn't set until just before it goes on the actual assembly line. This thread is pretty misleading.
Click to expand...
Yeah sorry you don't. As stated the vin is made up when the vehicle is about to be built. Here's a little insight,if say there's an accident in the mixing kitchen,and 10 barrels of sgp are lost and they don't have a replacement,and said car was being built and a vin was premade prior to assembly,guess what that vin would be useless if in the vin it said what color the car was that just so happened to be sgp.....so you'd have a useless vin and a car you cannot build because of lack of color and since that color is in the vin it would be a lie. Honda like many of us manufacturers are on demand manufacturers. You predestined x amount of units per build. You build those said unit in sequence by color. So one day they run 100 red 100 black and 20 blue. Guess what those are in sequence and that shows in the vin what number that vehicle was coming off the line. Since the body gets vin stamped prior to paint that means it must be in sequence. Otherwise it would be a dead unit and they can't produce dead units.. hence they're called on demand manufacturing. You can even YouTube some of the factory Honda vehicles being made and how Honda themselves say they're an on demand manufacturer. As the parts come in the cars get built and they have a very good forecasting system. Hence the factory shut downs. If the parts can't come in on time they can't build the car. In a perfect world they'd have all the parts on hand ready to go so in case something happened say they were running hatchbacks one day, and lo and behold the hatch portion trunk didn't show up,they could simply switch real fast to sedans. But they don't stock parts like that since they're an on demand manufacturer. You don't have to agree with me but it is what it is. Literally coming from Honda themselves. They literally build the car as the parts come in. Then guess what,once everything on hand is confirmed for the day or the week,they proceed to build then they schedule the build and once everything is in order for the assembly run,they begin building and stamping vins. They don't just have the vins laying around for months .they don't know what they'll have to vin the vehicles until the build.
 
#11 ·
1pt5Vtec said:
Yeah sorry you don't. As stated the vin is made up when the vehicle is about to be built. Here's a little insight,if say there's an accident in the mixing kitchen,and 10 barrels of sgp are lost and they don't have a replacement,and said car was being built and a vin was premade prior to assembly,guess what that vin would be useless if in the vin it said what color the car was that just so happened to be sgp.....so you'd have a useless vin and a car you cannot build because of lack of color and since that color is in the vin it would be a lie. Honda like many of us manufacturers are on demand manufacturers. You predestined x amount of units per build. You build those said unit in sequence by color. So one day they run 100 red 100 black and 20 blue. Guess what those are in sequence and that shows in the vin what number that vehicle was coming off the line. Since the body gets vin stamped prior to paint that means it must be in sequence. Otherwise it would be a dead unit and they can't produce dead units.. hence they're called on demand manufacturing. You can even YouTube some of the factory Honda vehicles being made and how Honda themselves say they're an on demand manufacturer. As the parts come in the cars get built and they have a very good forecasting system. Hence the factory shut downs. If the parts can't come in on time they can't build the car. In a perfect world they'd have all the parts on hand ready to go so in case something happened say they were running hatchbacks one day, and lo and behold the hatch portion trunk didn't show up,they could simply switch real fast to sedans. But they don't stock parts like that since they're an on demand manufacturer. You don't have to agree with me but it is what it is. Literally coming from Honda themselves. They literally build the car as the parts come in. Then guess what,once everything on hand is confirmed for the day or the week,they proceed to build then they schedule the build and once everything is in order for the assembly run,they begin building and stamping vins. They don't just have the vins laying around for months .they don't know what they'll have to vin the vehicles until the build.
Click to expand...
Yes. I know. I have worked in manufacturing for decades. I do have a car coming to me. The VIN just won't be set until just before production. Your post and responses are confusing and contradictory. That's all. Have a good one.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
How Honda makes their cars.


9th gen accord 10th gen civic 11th gen civic they all operate the same.
Notice the very beginning a white sheet taped to the body. Build sheet prior to stamping of the generated vin.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
sheltll70 said:
Yes. I know. I have worked in manufacturing for decades. I do have a car coming to me. The VIN just won't be set until just before production. Your post and responses are confusing and contradictory. That's all. Have a good one.
Click to expand...
Nothing is contradictory.
If a dealer tells you your car is coming but can't provide you a vin.....then your car isn't coming.
Literally many people have already confirmed it even here when the dealer says hey we got your car coming,it's coming,it's coming,...oh guess what they didn't send us your car but they sent us this other one you want it.... Exactly my point. It's not a contradiction. If the dealer promised you a car but can't provide vin,then you have no car coming. Simple.
 
#15 ·
1pt5Vtec said:
Nothing is contradictory.
If a dealer tells you your car is coming but can't provide you a vin.....then your car isn't coming.
Literally many people have already confirmed it even here when the dealer says hey we got your car coming,it's coming,it's coming,...oh guess what they didn't send us your car but they sent us this other one you want it.... Exactly my point. It's not a contradiction. If the dealer promised you a car but can't provide vin,then you have no car coming. Simple.
Click to expand...
As I mentioned..... I have a civic on order and I have a build date. Is the date exact? no. Has a VIN been established yet? no. The car has been ordered by me thru my dealer. The car IS allocated to me and my dealer. Is it physically in transport to me? No, not yet. But it will be. Car ordered, build date window set, no VIN until it is about to hit the line. I am done arguing.
 
#16 ·
1pt5Vtec said:
If a dealer tells you your car is coming but can't provide you a vin.....then your car isn't coming.
Click to expand...
Okay so I have purchased a Generation 11 Si as well as a Generation 11 Civic Sport Touring Hatch.

Along the way I have worked with more than 25 dealers and physically visited seven of them. Most of them have talked about having a car on a certain date but had no VIN. Two of the dealerships who insisted they had allocations in January still don't have cars. I know the sales manager at one of the dealerships (which is not where I bought mine because they wanted a $7500 Market Adjustment) who explained exactly what you are saying-that an allocation does not mean anything, especially in 2022 because production has been pushed back multiple times due to parts (chip) shortages.

I don't know why it's so hard for people to grasp this fact. Reality is when the VIN is created, the Build & Price tool on the Honda website will show that the vehicle is "In Transit" or, "On The Lot". In other words the consumer sees exactly what the dealerships see with the exception of allocations but the allocations are vapor and very highly unreliable.

I see a lot of the stories both here and in other Generation 11 groups including Facebook and every time I see somebody who has put down $500 or $1,000 to "reserve their place" in a line that has no known beginning or end saddens me. I used the Build & Price tool to locate both of the cars I purchased, both of which were on the lot, neither of which was local to me but it was worth driving because there was no Market Adjustment for either.
 
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#17 ·
In the past hour, another Gen 11 buyer, incredulous that his allocated Civic isn't coming.
:ROFLMAO:
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#18 ·
For those who are still waiting, I encourage you to continue to check Honda's website for vehicles showing as "in transit" or "available" at any dealerships in your area, and call the dealership when you see one that fits what you're looking for. At this point, it's the best chance you've got to land a car. The car i put a deposit on in February still hasn't been built, but I was able to search around and find one at another dealer.
 
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#19 ·
BlueStreak said:
For those who are still waiting, I encourage you to continue to check Honda's website for vehicles showing as "in transit" or "available"
Click to expand...
đź’Ż
Totes agreed. It's how I bought both of my Gen 11's. Build & Price tool, expand Zip Code search, and bam!
 
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#20 ·
BlueStreak said:
For those who are still waiting, I encourage you to continue to check Honda's website for vehicles showing as "in transit" or "available" at any dealerships in your area, and call the dealership when you see one that fits what you're looking for. At this point, it's the best chance you've got to land a car. The car i put a deposit on in February still hasn't been built, but I was able to search around and find one at another dealer.
Click to expand...
Hey BlueStreak. I have looked online for this before but haven't had any luck. Could you please post a link?
 
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