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muhCivic

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Looking to buy Si or Touring Manual.

Want: Quiet, and no bouncing up and down shaking.

Initially wanted Si for the 200hp and superior shift knob, but I hear they removed noise dampening on the Si and the suspension rattles making you shake a lot in the car. Is this true?

If so, then I'll go with touring, which all youtubers say it like riding a boat [smooth] and is quiet.

I came from a 2009 civic, which from facotry it bounced a lot, so I added micheline tires at the time and it reduced the bumpyness. Then with the michelline premier , there is zero bumps.

So regardless on day one I'll be heading to costco to swap the tires with micheline premiers.

My question is: is that extra 20hp on SI worht the effort of having to take it into a shop to have noise dampening added and shocks swapped and risk having a bumpy car even then? Or will aftermarkets make the car super quiet like a mercedes.

Or am I better off getting the touring 180hp - already had noise dampening and is quieter, so all i need to do is swap the tires. And enjoy even more fuel efficiency.

In the end just want a manual replacement for my old civic2009. what do you recommend?

Up here in Canada is there a diff between SI and Touring manual [in terms of perks? - i hear Si Canada you get heating seats by default]
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Jimi said:
If you can’t decide
Get the sport touring hatch.
It’s different
Click to expand...
Well seeing videos of people on Si and apparently it makes cool sound effects. But i wonder if the touring does the same with turbo.

Yea the touring does look more luxury from the inside.

I just wish they had the full spec of Si hatchback , would have willing paid extra. Ohh well I'll test drive both.

I do like the look of the hatchback, and maybe I can achieve the 200hp by tuning it.

So hard to decide. Originally i was gona get mercedes, but they don't make manuals. Once I saw the Si and the touring hatchback, i was like "ohh this is just like my old 2009 civic" which brought great joy even with its low hp, way more than a muscle car automatic and you didn't feel guilty wasting gas on the civic because it was fuel efficient.
 
#4 ·
If you want quiet then the cool Si sound effects might bother you more than anything. The Si exhaust is definitely louder than the others , it is more like a nice aftermarket exhaust system sound, whether you like that or not ?

That hatchback in Canada commands a premium over the sedan in the touring models, it does look cool though. I have no idea of any difference in ride or sound - hatchback vs. sedan. Hatchbacks in general tend to let in more exterior noise just by their very nature of design, a trunk setup is usually quieter than a hatch generally speaking, but I can't say if that is the case on the Civic. A Hondata tune will get you close to Si power levels for relatively low cost and effort.
 
#5 ·
I drive a 10Gen SI and one thing I do not like about the car is these up-and-down bumpyness; quite “dramatic“ when going over speed bumps.

If this is important to you, MB is the way to go. My previous car was a MB CLK350 and the car felt a lot more controlled at uneven pavements.
 
#7 ·
My friend has a big-arse MB with window glass that is super thick, so quiet and smooth. He purchased it for $120,000, and he was barely able to sell it for $30,000 a few years later. They wanted $1,200 to change the sparkplugs as a regular maintenance item. You need to carry some astro-glide lube with you any time you take it in for maintenance. A Honda Civic may never approach the refinement of a MB, Jaguar, BMW, RR, but I am just fine with that.
 
#8 ·
Zeroptzero said:
My friend has a big-arse MB with window glass that is super thick, so quiet and smooth. He purchased it for $120,000, and he was barely able to sell it for $30,000 a few years later. They wanted $1,200 to change the sparkplugs as a regular maintenance item. You need to carry some astro-glide lube with you any time you take it in for maintenance. A Honda Civic may never approach the refinement of a MB, Jaguar, BMW, RR, but I am just fine with that.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

When I did my car shopping back in 2017, my initial choice was MB C-Coupe. I tried the Civic-Touring but I was not impressed with the CVT. I almost gave up and luckily I tried the SI, and even more lucky I had an excellent salesman. He went to the test drive with me and he kept asking me to push the car. The experience reminded me of my Honda Prelude (last gen) before the MB.

I am now in the 4th year of ownership of the SI. So far so good, the car is fun, good mileage and reliable.
 
#9 ·
Mis3 said:
Agreed.

When I did my car shopping back in 2017, my initial choice was MB C-Coupe. I tried the Civic-Touring but I was not impressed with the CVT. I almost gave up and luckily I tried the SI, and even more lucky I had an excellent salesman. He went to the test drive with me and he kept asking me to push the car. The experience reminded me of my Honda Prelude (last gen) before the MB.

I am now in the 4th year of ownership of the SI. So far so good, the car is fun, good mileage and reliable.
Click to expand...
I had a Touring Coupe in 2016, CVT, it was a nice looking car in the blue. I was looking for a 10th gen Si recently because I wanted the adaptive suspension, but I found the 11th gen Si in the dealer showroom and jumped on it. I would have been happy with the 10th gen Si too, but onto a new chapter with the 11th gen.


Image


Image
 
#10 ·
muhCivic said:
Looking to buy Si or Touring Manual.

Want: Quiet, and no bouncing up and down shaking.

Initially wanted Si for the 200hp and superior shift knob, but I hear they removed noise dampening on the Si and the suspension rattles making you shake a lot in the car. Is this true?

If so, then I'll go with touring, which all youtubers say it like riding a boat [smooth] and is quiet.
Click to expand...
Assuming you mean a Sport Touring (HB) with the 6MT -

If a softer (more absorbing of bad road) suspension is one of your top priorities, go with the ST over the Si.

The Si will give you more power, better handling (on smooth roads), and the LSD which will help pull you through tight turns and in possibly one-sided traction scenarios (loose snow). The shifter will be slicker, too.

The ST hatch will give you more comfort, both with the seats and the suspension, can be bumped up to stock Si levels of power (if not traction) with a sub $500 mod (Hondata Flashpro) (note: may not be available/legal in Canada yet?), and a LOT more utility with the hatch cargo space. You won't have the LSD or the really nice shifter, but the shifter it has got is still pretty good (especially if you upgrade the shift knob).


The thing about the Si, to me, is that its sporty advantages will very rarely come into play in my daily driving. But the absorptive suspension will surely come into play.

If you want a "fun, reasonably sporty car you can use as a daily driver" that's the Si; if you want a "daily driver that's a bit more fun/sporty than the sedan or CVT hatchback", that's the 6MT ST.

Or the VW GTI, but I really hated the Mk8 infotainment/HVAC controls and that's something you'll live with every day. Plus the less good maintenance reputation, less rear seat/cargo space, and I really love the sedan-like "fastback" look over the squared off "traditional hatchback" look.
 
#11 ·
I would go with STHB 6MT and be done with it.
Too bad it only comes in 3 colors (in USA)
Note it also does not have engine sound piped in the speaker system. (what's up with that Joke)

Si is not want it used to be,,,,,
 
#12 ·
Has anyone driven both the Si and Sport Touring 6MT? I am trying to decide between the two. I'd be curious to hear differences in shifter, steering and clutch feel.
Si - It sounds like it has heavier steering and better exhaust from the reviews I've watched. I also like what should be better shifter, seats and exterior color options.
ST - Many additional features such as leather, heated seats and parking sensors being 3 highlights for me. I prefer the wheel coloring and gauge cluster on this model as well.
Use case - Fun but practical manual transmission car to use on the weekends.
 
#13 ·
TheRas900 said:
Has anyone driven both the Si and Sport Touring 6MT? I am trying to decide between the two. I'd be curious to hear differences in shifter, steering and clutch feel.
Si - It sounds like it has heavier steering and better exhaust from the reviews I've watched. I also like what should be better shifter, seats and exterior color options.
ST - Many additional features such as leather, heated seats and parking sensors being 3 highlights for me. I prefer the wheel coloring and gauge cluster on this model as well.
Use case - Fun but practical manual transmission car to use on the weekends.
Click to expand...
Hey, I remember you from the TSXClub board, LOL.

I have been driving the ST 6MT since early November, it's great. I have not driven the 2022 Si but I have driven the previous gen (2017) Civic Si, and of course, the 2007 TSX (with "upgraded" Koni ST.RT shocks, Icebox air intake, and a Hondata tune).

I still kind of miss that VTEC sound missing in the 1.5T, but not the much poorer fuel economy, LOL!

The hatchback form was my top priority because I needed to cover the cargo scenarios where a sedan's trunk would be problematical, given that I'd just sold/passed on my last SUV/CUV style car to my daughter.

The advantages of the Si over it will be as you listed: more power (better and louder exhaust), the LSD instead of an open diff, sportier handling (heavier steering and stiffer suspension), better shifter feel. And "better seats" in the context of bolstering in high speed curves and turns. [note: the fake exhaust can be annoying for long drives and you can't turn it off, or maybe you just get used to it].

Oh, and the lighter fly wheel and auto rev matching. Sounds like something I'd like to play with some time. Definitely intriguing.

However, coming from the TSX, the ST is going to be much more similar. The TSX also had an open diff, after all, and heated power leather seats, instead of sporty cloth bucket seats with no heat.

The ST shifter felt a bit more "rubbery" than the TSX shifter did, but you know what, that had a lot to do with the rubbery feeling leather on the OEM knob. I swapped it out for the rounded knob from a 9th gen Si that a friend of mine gave me long ago (I used it for a while in my TSX, then went back to the smaller/thinner stock TSX knob) and it feels much better.

I don't know what the TSX stock suspension felt like (by the time I got mine the previous owner had already swapped it out), but the ST suspension is amazing over bad road. Absorbing without being "boat-like". Is it "sporty"? Well, no, and I'd say it's even a bit less responsive feeling in the steering than my wife's 2016 Civic EX-T, but it's no Lincoln Town Car, either (which my dad used to have).

As a daily driver, I would take my ST suspension over the more "sporty" Koni shocks I had in the TSX in a heartbeat. I get a lot more "bad road" than "curvy, twisty roads I can drive faster than 40 mph on for more than ten car lengths" in my life.

The stock ST felt noticeably less powerful than my TSX had been - which had been Hondata tuned - and so guess what, I also Hondata tuned my ST, with the CARB legal version. Now it feels at least as powerful as my tuned TSX had been, on the same 91 Octane fuel, while giving me 37% better fuel economy, a hatchback, a more comfortable ride, and all the modern tech. And the OEM audio system is WAY better than the TSX had. Me likey very much.

And like people did with the TSX, if I felt the need to, some time down the road I could swap in a different exhaust, the tires, sport seats, add an air intake, go with Koni shocks, even drop in a Quaife LSD... I don't think I ever would, but all those things you can upgrade from, what you cannot change is the chassis of the car to add a hatchback to an Si.

The thing I miss the most, oddly, are the memory seats. I am a tall driver and every time I take it to a car wash or someone else drives my car, I feel like I can't quite get the position back quite right.
 
#14 ·
robardin said:
Hey, I remember you from the TSXClub board, LOL.

I have been driving the ST 6MT since early November, it's great. I have not driven the 2022 Si but I have driven the previous gen (2017) Civic Si, and of course, the 2007 TSX (with "upgraded" Koni ST.RT shocks, Icebox air intake, and a Hondata tune).

I still kind of miss that VTEC sound missing in the 1.5T, but not the much poorer fuel economy, LOL!

The hatchback form was my top priority because I needed to cover the cargo scenarios where a sedan's trunk would be problematical, given that I'd just sold/passed on my last SUV/CUV style car to my daughter.

The advantages of the Si over it will be as you listed: more power (better and louder exhaust), the LSD instead of an open diff, sportier handling (heavier steering and stiffer suspension), better shifter feel. And "better seats" in the context of bolstering in high speed curves and turns. [note: the fake exhaust can be annoying for long drives and you can't turn it off, or maybe you just get used to it].

Oh, and the lighter fly wheel and auto rev matching. Sounds like something I'd like to play with some time. Definitely intriguing.

However, coming from the TSX, the ST is going to be much more similar. The TSX also had an open diff, after all, and heated power leather seats, instead of sporty cloth bucket seats with no heat.

The ST shifter felt a bit more "rubbery" than the TSX shifter did, but you know what, that had a lot to do with the rubbery feeling leather on the OEM knob. I swapped it out for the rounded knob from a 9th gen Si that a friend of mine gave me long ago (I used it for a while in my TSX, then went back to the smaller/thinner stock TSX knob) and it feels much better.

I don't know what the TSX stock suspension felt like (by the time I got mine the previous owner had already swapped it out), but the ST suspension is amazing over bad road. Absorbing without being "boat-like". Is it "sporty"? Well, no, and I'd say it's even a bit less responsive feeling in the steering than my wife's 2016 Civic EX-T, but it's no Lincoln Town Car, either (which my dad used to have).

As a daily driver, I would take my ST suspension over the more "sporty" Koni shocks I had in the TSX in a heartbeat. I get a lot more "bad road" than "curvy, twisty roads I can drive faster than 40 mph on for more than ten car lengths" in my life.

The stock ST felt noticeably less powerful than my TSX had been - which had been Hondata tuned - and so guess what, I also Hondata tuned my ST, with the CARB legal version. Now it feels at least as powerful as my tuned TSX had been, on the same 91 Octane fuel, while giving me 37% better fuel economy, a hatchback, a more comfortable ride, and all the modern tech. And the OEM audio system is WAY better than the TSX had. Me likey very much.

And like people did with the TSX, if I felt the need to, some time down the road I could swap in a different exhaust, the tires, sport seats, add an air intake, go with Koni shocks, even drop in a Quaife LSD... I don't think I ever would, but all those things you can upgrade from, what you cannot change is the chassis of the car to add a hatchback to an Si.

The thing I miss the most, oddly, are the memory seats. I am a tall driver and every time I take it to a car wash or someone else drives my car, I feel like I can't quite get the position back quite right.
Click to expand...
Ha, great to encounter you again! I recall you as well from TSX Club, and I still visit there from time to time hoping a mint 6MT appears for sale.
Thank you for this feedback as it is truly helpful!
 
#15 ·
I was also having trouble deciding, ended up settling on the Canadian Si, very happy with my decision, love the car. I would test drive both if you can. Si will be more fun to drive than the ST hatch.

To my tastes, the car isn't particularly bouncy or noisy, but I'm currently on winter tires (Michelin X-Ice). The stock all season tires were noisier and harsher. Car feels planted. I think the ST is "boaty", Savage Geese review mentioned this.

As for power, it's not just an extra 20 HP - the Civic hatch makes 180 HP at the crank, while the Si makes 200 HP at the wheels - the difference is more like 40 HP. The Si is also has shorter gearing, so you will feel more acceleration.

Si's exhaust is also awesome, as long as you keep the car in "Normal" mode. Normal has no piped in audio, and if you keep the music/radio off, you can hear crackles and pops. These are super obvious in parking garages.
 
#16 ·
qwerasdfzxcvbnm said:
I was also having trouble deciding, ended up settling on the Canadian Si, very happy with my decision, love the car. I would test drive both if you can. Si will be more fun to drive than the ST hatch.

To my tastes, the car isn't particularly bouncy or noisy, but I'm currently on winter tires (Michelin X-Ice). The stock all season tires were noisier and harsher. Car feels planted. I think the ST is "boaty", Savage Geese review mentioned this.

As for power, it's not just an extra 20 HP - the Civic hatch makes 180 HP at the crank, while the Si makes 200 HP at the wheels - the difference is more like 40 HP. The Si is also has shorter gearing, so you will feel more acceleration.

Si's exhaust is also awesome, as long as you keep the car in "Normal" mode. Normal has no piped in audio, and if you keep the music/radio off, you can hear crackles and pops. These are super obvious in parking garages.
Click to expand...
All these are true - though I will say, I don't care for the description of "boaty" for the ST's handling, as I reserve that for truly boaty cars like my dad's old Lincoln Town Car.

Relative to the Si, or even the 10th gen Civic, the steering and handling is definitely softer - but I still feel the ST is well-planted in a decreasing radius turn at speed, more so than (say) in my 2010 Acura MDX, and even my mom's current gen (G30) BMW 530i base sedan (no AWD).

So is it a sports car, or even a "sporty" car like the Si? Absolutely not. But does it provide no fun and sit as a "highway missile" touring cruiser, optimized for going 75 mph on a straight level road for hours on end? Also absolutely not.

I'd say Car & Driver described it pretty well:

Stick shift or no, the Sport Touring, like its Civic sedan sister ship, had us thinking "little Accord" more than "sport sedan." The hatchback's ride is supple and its handling secure, although it reveals surprising poise when pushed aggressively on a twisty two-lane. ... This is a car that doesn't fall to its knees when pressed, which is exactly what we say of the Accord Sport.
Click to expand...
At no point while driving it do you mistake it for a "sporty car", but if you push it like you would a sporty car in a tight turn, the car will actually perform "surprisingly well".

The Si's shorter gearing will give better acceleration as you row through the gears (keeping it higher in the RPM band as you upshift), but of course will mean cruising in top gear will also be at a higher RPM. Worse fuel economy and louder engine noise for the long road trips, in exchange for more excitement in middle gear rowing, twisty road fun.

And the fake exhaust noise in the cabin only being in "sport" mode and disabled in "normal" is great news. I hate that fake stuff!
 
#17 ·
robardin said:
All these are true - though I will say, I don't care for the description of "boaty" for the ST's handling, as I reserve that for truly boaty cars like my dad's old Lincoln Town Car.

Relative to the Si, or even the 10th gen Civic, the steering and handling is definitely softer - but I still feel the ST is well-planted in a decreasing radius turn at speed, more so than (say) in my 2010 Acura MDX, and even my mom's current gen (G30) BMW 530i base sedan (no AWD).

So is it a sports car, or even a "sporty" car like the Si? Absolutely not. But does it provide no fun and sit as a "highway missile" touring cruiser, optimized for going 75 mph on a straight level road for hours on end? Also absolutely not.

I'd say Car & Driver described it pretty well:



At no point while driving it do you mistake it for a "sporty car", but if you push it like you would a sporty car in a tight turn, the car will actually perform "surprisingly well".

The Si's shorter gearing will give better acceleration as you row through the gears (keeping it higher in the RPM band as you upshift), but of course will mean cruising in top gear will also be at a higher RPM. Worse fuel economy and louder engine noise for the long road trips, in exchange for more excitement in middle gear rowing, twisty road fun.

And the fake exhaust noise in the cabin only being in "sport" mode and disabled in "normal" is great news. I hate that fake stuff!
Click to expand...
I have the new Si, the piped in audio is actually still there in normal, just much much quieter than sport. The sound is honestly very good… at low RPM. It’s when it gets above 5k that it sounds very digital and synthetic. Regardless, it just entails pulling out a fuse and it’s disabled entirely. Otherwise, normal is quiet, sport is loud.
 
#18 ·
sonofashepherd said:
I have the new Si, the piped in audio is actually still there in normal, just much much quieter than sport. The sound is honestly very good… at low RPM. It’s when it gets above 5k that it sounds very digital and synthetic. Regardless, it just entails pulling out a fuse and it’s disabled entirely. Otherwise, normal is quiet, sport is loud.
Click to expand...
That's a handy tip to know. Is it a dedicated fuse just for this, or does pulling the fuse also cause something else to go out, like the backlighting to the HVAC dials or something? LOL
 
#19 ·
sonofashepherd said:
I have the new Si, the piped in audio is actually still there in normal, just much much quieter than sport. The sound is honestly very good… at low RPM. It’s when it gets above 5k that it sounds very digital and synthetic. Regardless, it just entails pulling out a fuse and it’s disabled entirely. Otherwise, normal is quiet, sport is loud.
Click to expand...
According to Honda, Normal has no artificial exhaust sound. I not sure though, maybe you're right - I can't hear anything obvious


Image
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#20 ·
Compared to Canada, the American Si has a lot of features missing, that I'd love for daily driving. These include dual climate control, heated seats, and a better instrument cluster. I prefer the styling of the sedan over hatchback and really dig the LSD and shorter gears of the Si. For daily driving though, the Sport Touring hatchback has my vote. More luxury and 95% of the sport feel.
 
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